Suspected Undercover Trans Stamp 22

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slcdrummer

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Hi Everybody,

I am asking for a little insight and just showing off a neat cymbal I just bought. This 22” old A was sold to me at a pretty good price as a “60’s A.” I noticed that it had a large hollow block stamp so I bought it just because it was undervalued by the seller.

C9F4ED80-23C7-4CFA-9F65-26D2CAEFDF41.jpeg


Now, today it arrives to me. It has beautiful hand work on the bottom, a smaller, narrower bell than the other block stamps I have owned, and an undersized bell hole (just barely fits on my shaved down cymbal sleeve, just like my other trans stamp and old K’s.) To me it just looks like a trans stamp.

I was on Zenstat’s website reading about alternate explanations for the “1954 stamp” and this one seems to me like it was made in the trans stamp era, sat in the vault, and was stamped in the Large Stamp type I era. That theory feels compelling to me but if anybody has info about a cymbal like this I would love to hear it. I’m sure @zenstat or many of you old A experts will know what’s happening here.

Very fun great sounding cymbal. Cell phone Sound file here:

 
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Yep, I saw that listing and passed on it. I’ve already got a 22” hollow block. Looks like a great cymbal and I hope you play it and enjoy it for a long time.
 
Looks to be a pretty standard Hollow Block 22 to me. I've had several of those. I'm still looking for a 22 large stamp that blows me away. I just find most of them all to
be somewhat standard or generic for that period. I haven't run into one yet that I would consider "way" different. Builds were pretty consistent by Zildjian.
The "star burst" hammering pattern on the reverse is even seen on later 1950's small stamps. So you can get that on trans stamps, large stamps, and 50's small stamps....maybe even
some very early 60's stamps.

As far as the trans stamp "era" goes.....it's potentially "most" of the 1950's imo. Surely the trans stamps overlapped the large stamps by some amount since
large stamp hi hats are nearly non-existant (ie the hats and small cymbals in general were punched with trans stamps....until the first small stamps appeared in 56(?)/57(?).....pick a year).

From my experiences the "star burst" hammering seemed to peak into the type 3 Trans Stamp period - to mid-50's. I don't see it as much trans stamp Type 1/2's and pre-trans.
It's not a guarantee of a great sounding cymbal either...or that it's "better" than one without a strong pattern. Here's a 20" type 3 with rounded over edge showing that heavier hammering.
Oddly, this 2080 gm trans stamp sounds 90% the same as my 20" 1st gen EAK at 2030 gm (1982-1984?). I was sort of surprised at how closely they match. I'm starting to think that the best made and best
sounding trans stamps (type 3/4) tend to mirror the same time period in the old stamp K Istanbuls.


best bottom trans 20.JPG
IMG_3442.JPG
 
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Tama CW said:
Looks to be a pretty standard Hollow Block 22 to me. I've had several of those. I'm still looking for a 22 large stamp that blows me away. I just find most of them all to
be somewhat standard or generic for that period. I haven't run into one yet that I would consider "way" different. Builds were pretty consistent by Zildjian.
The "star burst" hammering pattern on the reverse is even seen on later 1950's small stamps. So you can get that on trans stamps, large stamps, and 50's small stamps....maybe even
some very early 60's stamps.

As far as the trans stamp "era" goes.....it's potentially "most" of the 1950's imo. Surely the trans stamps overlapped the large stamps by some amount since
large stamp hi hats are nearly non-existant (ie the hats and small cymbals in general were punched with trans stamps....until the first small stamps appeared in 56(?)/57(?).....pick a year).

From my experiences the "star burst" hammering seemed to peak into the type 3 Trans Stamp period - to mid-50's. I don't see it as much trans stamp Type 1/2's and pre-trans.
It's not a guarantee of a great sounding cymbal either...or that it's "better" than one without a strong pattern. Here's a 20" type 3 with rounded over edge showing that heavier hammering.
Oddly, this 2080 gm trans stamp sounds 90% the same as my 20" 1st gen EAK at 2030 gm (1982-1984?). I was sort of surprised at how closely they match. I'm starting to think that the best made and best
sounding trans stamps (type 3/4) tend to mirror the same time period in the old stamp K Istanbuls.


View attachment 625053View attachment 625054
Click to expand...
Cool, thanks for this reply and the info! I had two other large stamps before a 22 and a 20 and their bells were wider and flatter than this one and they both had modern size bell holes. This bell looks like the bell on a 20” trans I used to have so the bell and the small hole is probably the main thing that had me thinking this one might be older. But based on the info that’s out there it sounds like there might be many more large stamps with these characteristics out there
 
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slcdrummer said:
Cool, thanks for this reply and the info! I had two other large stamps before a 22 and a 20 and their bells were wider and flatter than this one and they both had modern size bell holes. This bell looks like the bell on a 20” trans I used to have so the bell and the small hole is probably the main thing that had me thinking this one might be older. But based on the info that’s out there it sounds like there might be many more large stamps with these characteristics out there
Click to expand...
Generally speaking build is more like a trans stamp than a large stamp. I like your theory. Dig the sounds, nice low fundamental pitch. Great grab!
 
This is just what the bell looked like on my other large stamps!
Screen Shot 2023-06-07 at 2.51.44 PM.png
 
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