Tama 50th Anniversary Bell Brass

[mpthomson]

Could you cite this source because I call not true.

Here is one example, there have been others (and one is referred to in the article).

Blind-tested soloists unable to tell Stradivarius violins from modern instruments

Following the controversial 2010 study in Indianapolis, researchers in Paris invite ten professional musicians to compare twelve instruments

www.thestrad.com

 

[Skyrm]

Has anyone had their hands on this 50th Tama BB and the Zildjian 400th Anniversary?

I'm curious how they compare.

You'll never guess who!

50th ‘vs’ 400th - yes, they are both that Good! Great! Excellent!

…. Was presented with a unique experience, that I did not ask for, but , was given to me by a facility and a friend. Had the opportunity to experience side-by-side the new Tama BB 50th anniversary snare drum and the Zildjian 400th anniversary alloy snare drum. Let me make this clear , I’m not...

www.drumforum.org

 

[Whitten]

And that's fine as long as people understand that a buying decision is as much, if not more. about heart than head for this type of instrument.

It's both. My Craviotto Black Cherry is a workhorse that delivers every time I use it.
Most modern equipment is very well made and performs well. Like a Chinese violin.
I have rented a lot of factory made drums and while sounding good they usually don't sound exceptional.
For me any high end product I buy it is all about the sound potential, not the exotic material, or the limited edition/ rarity.
Also, playing something that has a history attached is often more inspiring than something that left the factory floor a couple of months ago.

 

[Steech]

Other than the cost, which I likely wouldn't entertain for anything, I think it's a cool drum.
I like the finish, and appointments on it. I like the nod to the past, and that it DOES have a fairly specific type of sound, and if someone really said "THAT'S IT!!", and it's what they feel is the sound they hear in their head, then it's a good investment.
I'd be happy if someone was stoked to get one.

MY actual thought for myself is, would I end up tuning this $3-4K snare to basically the "same" sound as all my other snares end up sounding like????
It wouldn't start that way, but after a week on the stand, somehow the tweaks, and single lug turns here and there..... well, it sounds like the one I took off the stand last week...

Interesting point.
I always crank my snares sky high to get the biggest crack and shortest note.

I have a Gretsch Bell Brass snare and it’s the exception. I found a mid-to-high tuning that just works wonders and have no intentions of taking it any higher than that.

 

[tapotti]

I don't know about you guys, but I plan to gig my 50th anniversary snare. I play in an '80s hair metal band!

 

[Steech]

I don't know about you guys, but I plan to gig my 50th anniversary snare. I play in an '80s hair metal band!

Pix or it didn’t happen!

 

[mpthomson]

It's both. My Craviotto Black Cherry is a workhorse that delivers every time I use it.
Most modern equipment is very well made and performs well. Like a Chinese violin.
I have rented a lot of factory made drums and while sounding good they usually don't sound exceptional.
For me any high end product I buy it is all about the sound potential, not the exotic material, or the limited edition/ rarity.
Also, playing something that has a history attached is often more inspiring than something that left the factory floor a couple of months ago.

But, and with respect for your experience, your decisions about buying gear won't necessarily come from the same place as they do for the majority of us who are weekend warriors, as your gear is your living.

I suspect a lot of the fuss around cast bronze drums and owning one is about owning a halo drum far more than it is about buying anything sound potential related. Most of us know well that the sound on the Black Album or Nevermind is as much about the production and skills of the engineers/producers involved as it is about the drum. For years everyone thought the first RATM album was recorded with a Tama BB until Brad Wilk told everyone that it was actually a standard 6.5 brass Free Floater, even though the sound on the album is basically the same.

And I'm not immune from that, I've owned two cast bronze drums in my time. Your last point is well made and part of what my point was.

 

[853guy]

I don't know if the new 50th Anniversary Bell Brass is "worth" $4K*.

I'm not sure that the new one has the same subjective harmonic complexity and tonal depth of the 1980 original.

I'm not convinced that you can't get in the sonic ball park for much less - especially given how easy it is to combine live-tracked drums with sample augmentation in the studio (and how prevalent that practice is, especially in modern pop/rock/metal).

I don't believe there's any magic associated with drum manufacturing, and I certainly don't believe giving it a catchy acronym (looking at you, DW) or naming it based on how many years the company has been in existence (looking at you, Zildjian) makes for an inherently better sounding instrument.

But damn, I love how it sounds here.

*Though, I have no doubt, it will be worth it to some.

 

[dingaling]

A little off topic, but does anyone actually gig cast snares? They are typically 15-35 pounds and they are so loud that I’ve never had a great experience on a gig. I used one before and the sound guy and band though it was way too loud. I recorded with one and the sound guy preferred a Ludwig supraphonic so we switched it out to that.

So unless I’m playing heavy rock in a stadium, I don’t know where they fit in. Don’t get me wrong, they are super cool, I just don’t think they beat out my 5 top gigging snares for the job, and end up being shelf collection drums.
My top 5 giggers are 6.5” Ludwig hammered bronze, 5” Ludwig acrolite, 6.5” Sonor beech phonic, 6” Sonor maple delite, and 6.5 pork pie black beauty.

 

[dingaling]

I don't know if the new 50th Anniversary Bell Brass is "worth" $4K.

I'm not sure that the new one has the same subjective harmonic complexity and tonal depth of the 1980 original.

I'm not convinced that you can't get in the sonic ball park for much less - especially given how easy it is to combine live-tracked drums with sample augmentation in the studio (and how prevalent that practice is, especially in modern pop/rock/metal).

I don't believe there's any magic associated with drum manufacturing, and I certainly don't believe giving it a catchy acronym (looking at you, DW) or naming it based on how many years the company has been in existence (looking at you, Zildjian) makes for an inherently better sounding instrument.

But damn, I love how it sounds here.

$4k in 2024 is priced for inflation which is more like $3k in 2019 so makes sense to me. As Chris mentioned, shipping alone has gone way up, plus materials, it’s not easy to produce goods anymore for a profit.

 

[853guy]

$4k in 2024 is priced for inflation which is more like $3k in 2019 so makes sense to me. As Chris mentioned, shipping alone has gone way up, plus materials, it’s not easy to produce goods anymore for a profit.

I edited my post above.

 

[HalldorL]

A little off topic, but does anyone actually gig cast snares? They are typically 15-35 pounds and they are so loud that I’ve never had a great experience on a gig. I used one before and the sound guy and band though it was way too loud.

I have two cast bronze drums, a Duluth shelled Tama Replica and a Gretsch BB. Yes, I gig my Tama replica all the time. I find it the better of the two although they are similar. The weight is no issue for me. I’m in good shape.
I am constantly asked to bring it to recording sessions, it records so well for all kinds of of music. A rich, musical drum.
My Tama Star Bubinga snare is louder than the BB. In fact I don’t get the myth that it’s “so loud and has so much crack that it takes you head off”. It’s a warm sounding drum and with die-cast hoops the rimshots are semi-integrated. That’s why I use 2.3 triple flange hoops to get more twang and overtones. Of course it can be loud when played with force, like any drum. Initially you control how loud it is by how you play it.
What I almost never see anyone mention is that it’s a GREAT drum for brush playing and to play low volume delicate passages on. A very versatile drum in so many ways.

 

[bellbrass]

Wh

A little off topic, but does anyone actually gig cast snares? They are typically 15-35 pounds and they are so loud that I’ve never had a great experience on a gig. I used one before and the sound guy and band though it was way too loud. I recorded with one and the sound guy preferred a Ludwig supraphonic so we switched it out to that.

So unless I’m playing heavy rock in a stadium, I don’t know where they fit in. Don’t get me wrong, they are super cool, I just don’t think they beat out my 5 top gigging snares for the job, and end up being shelf collection drums.
My top 5 giggers are 6.5” Ludwig hammered bronze, 5” Ludwig acrolite, 6.5” Sonor beech phonic, 6” Sonor maple delite, and 6.5 pork pie black beauty.

When I got my first bell brass snare, an '82, from Treviso, I gigged with that thing for years. It was heavy! There was one bar in particular where it sounded fantastic. BTW, I never heard a single sound engineer complain about the volume of that snare. All of the complaints were about cymbals!

 

[bellbrass]

A rich, musical drum.
My Tama Star Bubinga snare is louder than the BB. In fact I don’t get the myth that it’s “so loud and has so much crack that it takes you head off”. It’s a warm sounding drum and with die-cast hoops the rimshots are semi-integrated. That’s why I use 2.3 triple flange hoops to get more twang and overtones. Of course it can be loud when played with force, like any drum. Initially you control how loud it is by how you play it.
What I almost never see anyone mention is that it’s a GREAT drum for brush playing and to play low volume delicate passages on. A very versatile drum in so many ways.

I agree 100%. The bell brass sounds great when struck lightly or with moderate force. I bet it would sing with brushes. I would even go so far as to say it would be a great snare for jazz. When I met Bill Buford years ago, we talked about his 1980 Tama. I seem to remember him talking more about how responsive it was at low volume, but not having "that sort of tinny, brassy tone."

 

[bpaluzzi]

A little off topic, but does anyone actually gig cast snares? They are typically 15-35 pounds and they are so loud that I’ve never had a great experience on a gig. I used one before and the sound guy and band though it was way too loud. I recorded with one and the sound guy preferred a Ludwig supraphonic so we switched it out to that.

So unless I’m playing heavy rock in a stadium, I don’t know where they fit in. Don’t get me wrong, they are super cool, I just don’t think they beat out my 5 top gigging snares for the job, and end up being shelf collection drums.
My top 5 giggers are 6.5” Ludwig hammered bronze, 5” Ludwig acrolite, 6.5” Sonor beech phonic, 6” Sonor maple delite, and 6.5 pork pie black beauty.

I use my Gretsch BB as my main (only) snare for one of my main gigs. It's indie rock (playing a 12-16/24 kit w/ modern K cymbals), but not overly loud.


Our last time in the studio, I brought a half-dozen snares (modern and vintage), and the Gretsch BB was the only drum that we ended up using.

 

[Treviso1]

A little off topic, but does anyone actually gig cast snares? They are typically 15-35 pounds and they are so loud that I’ve never had a great experience on a gig.

I gig cast/heavy weight snares pretty exclusively with my band ThunderBeard: A Tribute to ZZ Top. I just find that they consistently sound better on every stage and room I play in. Yes, they are heavy, but they I just prefer them to my other snares at the moment. This moment has been going on for the past year. I don't see anything changing. I have lots of these thick walled snares, most of them cast, but I also have some killer 3mm Trick Copper snares that just smoke. I just enjoy playing these drums more these days. There's a solidity to the sound and feel that I just love.

 

[jpalom01]

I don't know if the new 50th Anniversary Bell Brass is "worth" $4K*.

But damn, I love how it sounds here.

Dayyyum. I knew Mario was a beast from hearing the albums, but man. I'm a bit surprised that thin-shelled Star Bubingas are able to take that kind of hitting.

The BB 50th sounds absolutely tremendous. A word I think I've used 3 times in the past 20 years.

 

[Mcjnic]

I would love for that guy to build my deck … a hammer in both hands … 20 minutes … done.

 

[Whitten]

But, and with respect for your experience, your decisions about buying gear won't necessarily come from the same place as they do for the majority of us who are weekend warriors, as your gear is your living.

Sure, but not all drums with some mojo are expensive.
yes, I did say - if you can afford it there is nothing wrong.
So you are making two separate arguments - first that it is all in the mind and not borne out of reality, second that high end/boutique is very expensive. The latter is usually right, but that doesn't mean owning and playing a Craviotto or 1920's Black Beauty is no better than owning and playing a Yamaha or Tama snare. In my experience it definitely ISN'T the same. And if they did sound almost the same, it would still be worth it if it makes you a happier drummer performing with them.

 

[Six-Ply]

Im my

Interesting point.
I always crank my snares sky high to get the biggest crack and shortest note.

I have a Gretsch Bell Brass snare and it’s the exception. I found a mid-to-high tuning that just works wonders and have no intentions of taking it any higher than that.

Im my experience 99% of all snares sound best in the mid tension/tuning.