The quarter note jazz ride thing... put to rest!

[5 Style]

OK, I know there was a post about this some time ago. Folks were debating whether or not a ride pattern that was just quarter notes and not the typical "ding- da ding- ding- da ding" ride pattern swings and will work for jazz music. I've really been listening for that sort of thing and in the interim, I've heard lots of jazz... the swinging kid to, not fusion or avant garde stuff than uses this pattern. I use this pattern myself when I'm playing jazz for a bit of variety, but I'm admittedly and unschooled enough player that I don't want to make the call based on just what I do.

Last night I went to catch a bit of a gig a band that a bass player friend was part of. This guy often plays pretty modern kinds of stuff with lots of stretching out and unusual sort of textures and such. This time he was playing in a much more traditional context, in a group that featured a singer and did old jazz standards pretty much exclusively. There wasn't anything really modern or unusual about the arrangements either... really straight ahead, but really good. These guys could really play and make you realize how great these old songs can sound even if you thought that you're really tired of that kind of thing. Most of all everything was swinging! The drummer was this local guy... a pro who I took a lesson from years back. Someone who I'd seen playing and even though he's a monster in terms of chops, I wasn't really in love with his style, which I felt was a bit too noisy/choppy and not quite enough in tune with the folks that he was playing with. Not the case this time... he really concentrated on the feel... made it swing, left lots of space for the other players and did some really great tricks varying the textures and feels to keep it really interesting and fresh. In a word, I don't think that he could have played that music any better... and lots of the time he was playing time on the ride with just quarter notes!

Quarter notes can swing! Some jazz players do 'em a lot, some never... but there is no doubt that they're perfectly appropriate for the music.

 

[dcrigger]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

The biggest lesson I had of this, that really made an impression on me was seeing in about 73-74 a then rare Quincy Jones big band concert. This was right after Harvey Mason had dropped into the scene as the newest, hippest guy going - and so of course, that's who Quincy had playing drums in his sort-of all-star band appearance. And of course, they played Golson's Killer Joe (off of Quincy's Walking in Space album) and did a pretty reasonable length version with a couple of soloists, etc....anyway Harvey just floored me with his purposeful, minimalist approach - in a nutshell, IIRC correctly, except for the ensemble bridge sections, he played straight quarters on the ride, crosstick on 2 and rack tom on 4 relentless throughout - never varying, never wavering - following the dynamics - no, actually driving the band dynamically - with just that relentless one bar pattern. Man it swung its ass off!

So that was my lesson in the power, utility and deep, swinging pocket that one can achieve with 1/4's on the ride. Certainly 5 Style as you mention, it's not for all the time - but at the right moments - oh yeah, it swings.

David

 

[Luddite]

Steve Gadd is an absolute master at that (among many other things!).

 

[James Walker]

Steve Gadd is an absolute master at that (among many other things!).

A huge light bulb moment for me: 15 or 16 years old, seeing Steve Gadd live, and hearing him swing like nobody's business for a chorus or two of a blues, playing nothing but unison quarter notes: ride, snare, hats, bass drum. Kicking the hell out of the band playing something you'll find on Page 1 of every beginning drum set book - a huge lesson for me.

 

[slinginit]

Not to mention Tony Williams' ride which always broke the tradition. Yeah, quarters can swing.

 

[Mrtboner]

Not to mention Tony Williams' ride which always broke the tradition. Yeah, quarters can swing.

As long as your not playing something out of lack of ability to play something else, anything goes.

 

[Sonorholic]

Steve Gadd is an absolute master at that (among many other things!).

A huge light bulb moment for me: 15 or 16 years old, seeing Steve Gadd live, and hearing him swing like nobody's business for a chorus or two of a blues, playing nothing but unison quarter notes: ride, snare, hats, bass drum. Kicking the hell out of the band playing something you'll find on Page 1 of every beginning drum set book - a huge lesson for me.

I saw Max do that too.. remember that in 'swing' music the prevailing feel was quarters... the ride pattern didn't really happen till later.

 

[5 Style]

Not to mention Tony Williams' ride which always broke the tradition. Yeah, quarters can swing.

As long as your not playing something out of lack of ability to play something else, anything goes.

Actually, I think that when playing jazz, it's a little more difficult to play a straight quarter note pattern, al east it is for me. I keep wanting to play those upbeats. I might have to be doing it for a few more years at this point before I really "feel" that pulse. The great drummers who play it are obviously as comfortable with it as anything else, but it isn't the most obvious, or most natural feeling (at least at first) pattern to play, which is why it can be more difficult to play. Same with quarter notes in rock. I played pretty much exclusively eight note patterns for a few years and then when I started playing quarters, it was harder to really get a satisfying groove happening. Nowadays I can strip down pretty much any pattern that I use eights notes for to quarters... too me a while though to get to that point.

 

[rondrums]

I came up in organ trios, and one of my mentors was the legendary Don Patterson. His regular drummer was Billy James. Billy would sometime lay on the quarter note for an entire tune, and it swung like crazy. You can hear Billy doing that on a lot of Don's records.

It proves a point: Syncopation is everybody's business, not just the drummer's.

 

[Bongo Congo]

Quarter notes have always swung. Rufus "Speedy" Jones used to play some of Ellington's arrangements with straight eighths. I don't see that the matter needed "put to rest" at all.... but I'm glad you've done it!

 

[BrianOwens]

Steve Gadd is an absolute master at that (among many other things!).

One of my all time Faves!

 

[BennyK]

Grady Tate has made a career out of the quarter note. Not because that's all he can do, but because he knows how ,where and when .I think its in the inflection and ability to pull contrasting nuances out of your ride.

 

[Ludwig Von Buzztoven]

I think the first time I noticed the power of quarter notes on a ride in a jazz setting was Ben Dixon's playing on Big John Patton's "Blue John", on the song 'Hot Sauce' in particular. He's basically playing a simple understated surf beat on that song and it's just perfect.

BTW - "Blue John" is a very underrated soul jazz date, and while he wasn't Jimmy Smith, Patton had a great groove. Grant Green's on the album, too.

Buzz

 

[nomsgmusic]

Agreed with all of the above opinions. Many of my favorite drummers can swing you into bad health with ONLY quarters (most have already been mentioned. But someone mentioned Gadd, Tony, and Grady, ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!) But how about Elvin, Idris, and Jimmy Cobb (!!!) The quarter note "thing" is pretty synonymous with Organ Drumming (nice to hear someone mention Billy James,) but it can be used for sooooo much else as well.

The "groove" that someone described associated w/ Gadd, where ALL of your limbs play quarters is one of the greatest grooves EVER. I use that A LOT!!!! Used in different ways it can really lighten up the vibe, or really allow you to seriously dig in! Tony would have people do that at lessons at ALL different tempos. I have a "different" version that I use with all of my more advanced students. But not only is it an outstanding excercise, it grooves HARD! One great drummer told me one time, that if you can't make that "beat" swing, you have "no right" playing spang-a-lang (or anything else.) So true.

It's ALL about the quarter note!!!! If someone tries to convince me otherwise, I just politely walk away, and STRONGLY suggest to anyone to do the same. A strong quarter note pulse can "become" anything. A shuffle, swing, songo, jazz, funk, speed metal... whatever. It is the empty (yet prepared) canvas. But, you have to REALLY FEEL the entirety of the quarter note. And if you don't, any of those grooves will feel dreadfully ungrounded and "light."

I was asking Chick Corea about some music that he was playing with his "Touchstone" band once (an amazing band btw.) I was telling him that I just couldn't wrap my head around (conceptualize) it. (It's a fusion of Traditional Spanish, Flamenco, and jazz.) He smiled and told me to start by finding and really internalizing the quarter note pulse, that THAT was the entrance way into most music (and that stuff especially!)

Dave Crigger,
Harvey came up playing in organ groups, (and really digging the organ drumming tradition.) All the organ drummers that I know, call that groove (that you referenced) the "bongo beat." If you want to hear it at it's perfection, check out Charles Earland's "More Today Than Yesterday," off of Black Talk w/ Idris!!! It's a classic groove, the only problem is that when you play it right, it's soooo infectious that if you go anywhere else the groove usually lets down a bit (That's probably what you experienced with Harvey.) So I always take a while to get there, OR stay there once I'm there, (and just keep it popping) dig? Because if you leave it for "something else," it can feel like the bottom just fell out of the groove.

G R O O V E ! ! !
Mark

 

[nickg]

It proves a point: Syncopation is everybody's business, not just the drummer's.

try telling that to the guitar player!!!! good luck with that one Bub!!!

 

[tempobob]

The quarter note is the grand daddy of notes...but it's what goes on around it that swings.

 

[cruddyeye]

It's a classic groove, the only problem is that when you play it right, it's soooo infectious that if you go anywhere else the groove usually lets down a bit (That's probably what you experienced with Harvey.) So I always take a while to get there, OR stay there once I'm there, (and just keep it popping) dig? Because if you leave it for "something else," it can feel like the bottom just fell out of the groove.

G R O O V E ! ! !
Mark

That is so true. Great post.

 

[BennyK]

The quarter note swing thing is one area above the pernicious affectations of software. Here's my chance to prevail against the ' machine '.

 

[kip]

quarter note ride patterns DO NOT SWING

musicians PLAYING a quarter note ride pattern SWING

 

[SwivoNut]

I may be missing something here but I thought most jazz drummers play both patterns interchangeably. Straight quarter note patterns definitely have their place in very up-tempo tunes and slow, hard driving, bluesy ones. And on most any tune, drummers commonly change patterns between verses to add variety and color in the same way they change from the left ride cymbal to the right. But going past that, almost all drummers I've heard commonly intersperse both patterns, for example: one measure of trad, two measures of quarters, followed by another measure of trad, or any combination of the two. I grew up listening to Elvin Jones, Grady Tate, Joe Morello and many others who incorporated this style of playing. Big band drummers like Jake Hanna with Harry James and Woody Herman, Rufus Jones with Maynard Ferguson and Count Basie, and Jerry McKenzie with Stan Kenton were the grand masters of this technique. It's a second nature thing about knowing where and when to do it so that it's tasty and fits in perfectly with the tune. Just my two cents.