UFIP crash durability

[thebeebe5]

Anyone have experience with these cymbals? I looked at one yesterday, and 18" crash, that had the sweetest sound! It crashed quickly and LOUDLY. I can't remember the exact model but I could find out. It's NOS from a few years ago. I asked the sales guy about durability and he said they aren't known for it. Is this really the case? I'd hat to buy it only to toss it in the trash in a month. Even at 2005-ish prices it's not a cheap cymbal.

 

[Titus Pullo]

I'd like to know what the sales guy is basing his opinion on.

 

[Pounder]

UFIP is a great cymbal company. It depends on the line of cymbal, of course, but they are of the same quality as any other of the top cymbal makers, and in some cases better. The sales guy isn't really wanting to sell that one, is he?

You may have asked him a question that he felt was leading him to say the cymbal would not break. Any cymbal can break if played too hard or misused in some way. Keep that in mind no matter what brand you're thinking about buying.

 

[thebeebe5]

Yeah, I don't think that he meant they break all the time. I explained to him the last few times I've been in the store that recently the band has asked me to play with more "feeling" (read hit everything considerably harder). So I'm picking out sturdy cymbals because I'm probably over cautious about breaking favorites that I've had in the studio (stuff I've picked out at NAMM over the years comes to mind). I picked up a Sabian SR2 medium hand hammered crash yesterday and was also looking at this UFIP. His opinion was (and I agree) that it would be better to whack an SR2 and break it than a really nice italian crash that cost another $75 or so. i guess I could keep it at home too, but what would be the point? I have too much at home as it is....

 

[gezz]

Yeah, I don't think that he meant they break all the time. I explained to him the last few times I've been in the store that recently the band has asked me to play with more "feeling" (read hit everything considerably harder). So I'm picking out sturdy cymbals because I'm probably over cautious about breaking favorites that I've had in the studio (stuff I've picked out at NAMM over the years comes to mind). I picked up a Sabian SR2 medium hand hammered crash yesterday and was also looking at this UFIP. His opinion was (and I agree) that it would be better to whack an SR2 and break it than a really nice italian crash that cost another $75 or so. i guess I could keep it at home too, but what would be the point? I have too much at home as it is....

Maybe your band would get "more feeling" if they dropped down a few notches.. sometimes feeling or atmosphere can be greatly improved with dynamics.. Why should YOU risk you hard earned gear giving more volume unless you feel you are playing too quietly.. either way i would not risk an expensive purchase i was not sure could handle the situation.
I have a guitarist I used to work with (note: used)he would NOT turn down no matter what.. One gig i went through a head after his total refusal to turn down.. i sacked him on the spot that night, if i had cracked any of my cymbals he would have been replacing several teeth with has last pay packet!

gerry

 

[slinginit]

On durability, how you play definintely influences how long the cymbal will last. I'm actually surprised my Paistes survived my incessant bashing from my early drumming days. The countless debates on durability of "company X" cymbals litter the DFO archives come down to two things: 1. a cymbal was purchased but not correctly matched to the player's style/dynamic level or 2. a cymbal of "company X" or "product Y" broke prematurely (possibly due to factory defect) and therefore that drummer (or the drummer's "friend" who actually owned the cymbal) will NEVER buy from that cymbal company again. Lemon anecdotes and horror stories aside, I see no reason why UFIP cymbals would be any less durable than their competitors' cymbals. In fact, UFIP is the only cymbal company on the planet that uses rotocasting in place of rolling. It's my understanding that the process of rotocasting allows for a more uniform lattice structure of the bronze throughout the entire cymbal and the centrifugal force pushes any impurities to the edge where they are sheared away. I'd welcome any metallurgists to chime in now b/c I don't know if rotocasting affects the density of the bronze compared to traditional rolling methods. But it seems to me that their cymbals would be more durable by means of their ingenious production.

 

[slinginit]

Going back to your original post, it seems you were taken aback by the UFIP's response and volume (bashing salesman aside). That response is probably a function of the rotocasting process. I've heard from players that UFIPs are very responsive and dynamic instruments.

 

[thebeebe5]

I think I'm going to buy it tomorrow anyway. I really liked the sound and volume.

AND the salesman wasn't an issue at all as mentioned earlier. He was just trying to help protect my investment.

 

[drumsinhisheart]

I own a bunch of UFIPs. Class Series. Wonderful cymbals.

Every cymbal has a threshold. Hitting them harder cannot push a cymbal past its threshold. As has been stated any cymbal can crack. UFIPs are not any more "brittle" as a metal object than any other cymbal out there, in my own experience. I don't really buy Zildjians anymore because I have received cracked cymbals far too often from them, or poorly lathed cymbals. I just cannot vouch for their quality control. And their staff can be pretty "in-your-face" if you call and comment on it. I just stay away from them. But, that's my experience.

Purchase the UFIP if you like it, but treat it as the musical instrument it is. If a person "bashes," using heavy sticks, the thickest cymbal by any manufacturer can crack. It would akin to Pete Townsend expecting a guitar to hold up after smashing it all over a stage floor for five minutes.

 

[Marc M]

I have a UFIP class ride,good cymbal and unique sounding.If the cymbal you were looking at was a bionic it should work well,those are made for rock and are loud and cutting,and they are very responsive,they open up without having to bash the daylights out of them.

 

[ScottGunshore]

Were you shopping at Milano's in Mesa? Tom sold me some UFIPs several years ago.

I have a 10 inch splash, 13 inch hats, 17 and 18 inch crashes, and 21 inch ride. All Class series in medium weight.

They are beautiful cymbals and I'm glad I own them. The hats and ride just went back onto my kit recently. The roto-casting method gives them really thick bells that just sound fantastic, and most people in the know with UFIP will swear that the splashes can't be beat.

Here's the rub... both my crashes cracked. In the same spot. About 2 inches from the bell(s)... each crack is a little over an inch, following the circumference (perpendicular to the radius).

I'm not gonna say that it was not my fault, but I will say this... I've never cracked Paiste Sigs, RUDEs, Giant Beat, 1000, 3000, etc - in twenty years.

My advice is this: if you (and your band) really want volume, then you have to go with thicker, heavier cymbals. A cymbal can only generate so much volume, and given the same diameter (and keeping it simple) this volume will be based on the thickness / weight. Similar to an amp, you can't get 100W out of a 20W amp. A brighter cymbal may help you get the cut without as much thickness, but you'll have to gauge whether your cymbals are accomplishing what you need and buy accordingly.

The trade-off is dynamics and sensitivity. A thicker, heavier cymbal won't respond ("open up") to light touches.

I believe the UFIP Bionic series is their "heavy duty" line. The Class series may not cut it for your needs.

 

[jrfrond]

I my experience and travels, I have found that the sweetest-sounding crash cymbals are also the least durable, regardless of brand, because they are usually thin. This is primarily why I will not use Paiste crash cymbals. I've gone through four of them over the years, but a few Zildjian's as well.

 

[Titus Pullo]

There's a drum-dorkdum legend that there were batches of UFiP cymbals prone to breaking due to flawed production.
I think it's more myth than fact, but it's hard to say because UFiP has very little market here. I collect them, and have for years.
Not because I hope to make a mint flipping them, but rather because nothing sounds like them. I only own two crashes (very light); my money is in splashes and the Vintage and Collectors series Experience rides. The Luigi limited run rides are exquisite too, but the Firma are downright sublime .. if you can find one.

 

[thebeebe5]

I decided to pass for now. I really have a "brighter" sound in my ears, and this cymbal, while complex and beautiful, was just too low a pitch for me I'm afraid. Sure did sound sweet though....

 

[Titus Pullo]

I decided to pass for now. I really have a "brighter" sound in my ears, and this cymbal, while complex and beautiful, was just too low a pitch for me I'm afraid. Sure did sound sweet though....

That's odd; it's usually the other way around -- too bright.

 

[thebeebe5]

Well, maybe I need to take it home and try it.... I just always seem to love a cymbal in the store or on the trade show floor, then I get it home and it's not what I want to hear when I play it with the whole kit.... I do really like that cymbal, but I also really liked the Sabian HHX 18" Studio crash I got this summer and that was just WAY off as far as pitch. Super cymbal though!

 

[Drumaniac]

I my experience and travels, I have found that the sweetest-sounding crash cymbals are also the least durable, regardless of brand, because they are usually thin. This is primarily why I will not use Paiste crash cymbals. I've gone through four of them over the years, but a few Zildjian's as well.

So true, the ones that sound the sweetest to me are also the least durable.