were old RUDEs different?

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I saw a 20-inch Power Ride where the hammering actually looked three dimensional and not like as if painted on.
Do they have a black label /red label-type change-of-sound anywhere in their 40+ year history?

Also, I've seen photos of some that look deep caramel apple shiny… was someone getting fancy with a photo filter? Still others seem to have less of that ‘distressed’ metal look. One last question, do they respond differently to various sticks?

thanks,
jasyr
 
Hi, as far as I know the RUDEs since the 1980 start have been done in the same way. The only exception were the 1000 RUDEs (1986 - 1991), which seem to have been a smidge lighter on some models.

But, I would like to add that sometimes they do seem to vary in color, which I can't explain, as they have always been B8 alloy. Some look very yellow, some brown, some almost have a greenish hue.
 
jasyr said:
I saw a 20-inch Power Ride where the hammering actually looked three dimensional and not like as if painted on.
Do they have a black label /red label-type change-of-sound anywhere in their 40+ year history?

Also, I've seen photos of some that look deep caramel apple shiny… was someone getting fancy with a photo filter? Still others seem to have less of that ‘distressed’ metal look. One last question, do they respond differently to various sticks?

thanks,
jasyr
Click to expand...
The "black label /red label-type change-of-sound" is a myth!
The majority of the difference is down to age and wear and tear.....
 
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i'm a bit curious now, as I thought they changed somewhat, possibly associated with the color of lettering.
I dig a Zildjian Z3, the Thrash Ride, and I believe there are three different sets of hammering, and at least one name change, when they kept the cymbals but did away with the Z3/Z Custom line.
 
not to de-rail a thread i started but, i generally much prefer 1970's black label Paiste cymbals. And it's not only they are lighter weight, but the alloy. Paiste swear up and down it's the same but it's not. it's not a cut-off point of black and red ink, but a mid-1970's isn't the same sound as a late 1980's. Some types of 2oo2 cymbals more or less than others.

And getting back on track... the RUDE that i saw looked like the hammer went deeper than newer ones. Maybe the heavier Power Rides got/get a different treatment than the Crash Rides?
 
jasyr said:
not to de-rail a thread i started but, i generally much prefer 1970's black label Paiste cymbals. And it's not only they are lighter weight, but the alloy. Paiste swear up and down it's the same but it's not. it's not a cut-off point of black and red ink, but a mid-1970's isn't the same sound as a late 1980's. Some types of 2oo2 cymbals more or less than others.

And getting back on track... the RUDE that i saw looked like the hammer went deeper than newer ones. Maybe the heavier Power Rides got/get a different treatment than the Crash Rides?
Click to expand...
Paiste used the same supplier all throughout that era, there is not a change in the alloy specifications!

The weight difference is VERY small and usually falls within the variance for each size, the exception were that the German 2002's had a substantial difference in weight, usually heavier across the board.

I asked Fredy Studer last year this exact question because so many drummers keep repeating this myth:

"Many drummers think the black label 2002’s sound better and are ”mellower” than 80's red labels or brand new 2002’s, I believe it’s down to aging, metal fatigue and wear & tear that affects the sound of an old cymbal (and dirt), what are your thoughts on this (you heard all these cymbals when they were brand new!)?
Yes, all the factors you listed count in this case, plus don't forget it can be caused by just the alloy itself: if there’s a difference in the temperature of the weather (warm or cold) or if the air is wet or dry during the process of melting and rolling."

A conversation with Fredy Studer - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki www.cymbal.wiki
 
jasyr said:
it's not a myth. Red labels sound different, simple as that.
Click to expand...
alrighty then.gif
 
There was never a "black label" RUDE always white label except for the 7 years when they were part of the 3000 series whe they were labeled in red.

The cymbals never changed, only the labels.

As for the 2002, the weights we collected in the old Wiki indicated that the Ride, Medium and Crash models indeed did get a bit heavier. This happened in 1978/79 though, before the series got the red labels in 1981.
The other types (HiHats, Chinas... ) stayed exactly the same weight wise.
 
311Club said:
There was never a "black label" RUDE always white label except for the 7 years when they were part of the 3000 series whe they were labeled in red.

The cymbals never changed, only the labels.

As for the 2002, the weights we collected in the old Wiki indicated that the Ride, Medium and Crash models indeed did get a bit heavier. This happened in 1978/79 though, before the series got the red labels in 1981.
The other types (HiHats, Chinas... ) stayed exactly the same weight wise.
Click to expand...
The 1000 Rudes had green ink.

Paiste 1000 - Cymbal

www.cymbal.wiki www.cymbal.wiki
 
jasyr said:
it's not a myth. Red labels sound different, simple as that.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree as to my ear the red labels are brighter and have a little more harshness/bite to the tone whereas the black labels do seem to be smoother, darker, and mellower but in a subtle way. Its not like a massively obvious difference. Supposing the alloy never changed as @type85 said, its possible the hammering techniques changed a little bit which could account for sound difference, the lathing techniques may have variations, and FOR SURE the weights of the cymbals varied a lot. All that being considered, the part thats hard to measurably account for is how the aging of the cymbals factors into the overall sound you hear today.
 
They sound different today. I had a set when they came out way back and they really had a “clang” to them. They were an “upgrade” (for want of a better word) for heavy players needing something louder and more durable than 2002s. I moved from Giant Beats to 2002s then onto Rudes because of the volume onstage and the general lack of mic‘ing on stage.
The current range is definitely more mainstream now.Remember when they came out there was nothing like them for rock and punk players. I’d never heard anything like them at the time and they definitely caused other brands to make a range to hit that market.
Im back on Giant Beats now….
 
michiganice91 said:
I tend to agree as to my ear the red labels are brighter and have a little more harshness/bite to the tone whereas the black labels do seem to be smoother, darker, and mellower but in a subtle way. Its not like a massively obvious difference. Supposing the alloy never changed as @type85 said, its possible the hammering techniques changed a little bit which could account for sound difference, the lathing techniques may have variations, and FOR SURE the weights of the cymbals varied a lot. All that being considered, the part thats hard to measurably account for is how the aging of the cymbals factors into the overall sound you hear today.
Click to expand...
I have to say big fella, you have probably the most "in person" experience with both black and red labels on this forum, so I think you're opinion is the most well informed!

 
Today's Rudes are offered in " Thin " designations, which are kinda nice . Other than that not much to my ears has changed since the White Lettered ones of the eighties . With maple sticks, they are pretty versatile for just about anything and as loud as you want with hickory .
 
BennyK said:
Today's Rudes are offered in " Thin " designations, which are kinda nice . Other than that not much to my ears has changed since the White Lettered ones of the eighties . With maple sticks, they are pretty versatile for just about anything and as loud as you want with hickory .
Click to expand...
Yes, the "Thin Crash" Rudes are very nice sounding.
 
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