Who's the "Pioneer" of today

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Wow. . . well heres my 2 cents. And frankly I'm alil surprised no one has mentioned these guyz. Steve Gadd kicked off an entire generation of drum playing. Right from that lil lick in "Chucky's in Love" then then the groove for 50 ways?? all the Mozambique stuff w Paul Simon. . His influence then Spawned Vinny Caliutta which then also influenced Dave Weckle.. . I know I know what your gonna say about Dave. But when he hit nobody was playin like that. Not just dead on chops but phrasing and complete incorporation of the entire kit in melodic phrasing These guys then helped Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang rehash it harder. Both killers by the way
200 into the song. Subtle but who plays like that back then??
and of course the ol stand by which I could watch 1000 times.

 
Joeyboom said:
Wow. . . well heres my 2 cents. And frankly I'm alil surprised no one has mentioned these guyz. Steve Gadd kicked off an entire generation of drum playing. Right from that lil lick in "Chucky's in Love" then then the groove for 50 ways?? all the Mozambique stuff w Paul Simon. . His influence then Spawned Vinny Caliutta which then also influenced Dave Weckle.. . I know I know what your gonna say about Dave. But when he hit nobody was playin like that. Not just dead on chops but phrasing and complete incorporation of the entire kit in melodic phrasing These guys then helped Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang rehash it harder. Both killers by the way
200 into the song. Subtle but who plays like that back then??
and of course the ol stand by which I could watch 1000 times.
Click to expand...

He said 'today'.. you realize that was over 30 years ago, right?
"-)
 
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Maybe that drummer that went virile on youtube playing a zz top song with all the wild moves. Imagine a whole generation of young drummers practicing like that :)
 
now, if you're looking for the modern drummer who is testing the limits when it comes to drum fills....look no further than Aaron Spears.

&feature=related
 
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Drums have added to the progress of musical genres, and in some cases led the way. I haven't heard much in the way of significantly new directions in either for a long time.
As an instrument, the drumkit is barely a century old, if that. Since the invention of the internal combustion engine has the automobile changed from the original concept ? Yes, no maybe.
The role of drummers and not so much the articulation of its potential to open new doors is the final frontier. From supportive to conceptual and compositional will be a turning point, if that is meant to be.
Perhaps re interpreting other instruments as drums ( with strings or that you blow into )will cause a seismic shift in musical direction.
Nothing much new under the sun drumwise in the last 30 years or so. Maybe its all been said, who knows ?
 
If Bonham was a pioneer then maybe we need to look at someone that takes Bonham's drumming to a whole new level.

 
Bongo Congo said:
Thanks for the links to all these drummers, it's cool to check out some stuff I hadn't heard. Some cool playing...

"Pioneers", though... that's a really tough concept to solidify. It can't mean "he came up with a new 4/4 beat" or "his drums sound a little different than everybody else's". Or are we saying that's what it means?

It certainly can't mean in a purely technical sense. Because there's a mathematical limit to how you can coordinate your hands and how fast you can play, and that's been reached (or at least, has been achieved to such an extent of speed and coordination that, really, a few extra beats or a little more tempo are not going to radically alter the perception of it). You show me some guy playing some really elaborate coordinated rhythmic/"rudimental" structure... and I'll show you somebody who already did it.

Herein, I think, lies the problem: to be a "pioneer" of "new" drumming, you need "new" music. That's what Bonham had, that's what they all had.... music that nobody had tried to interpret before.

Find the music that nobody has heard yet, and you'll find the drumming that nobody has heard yet.
Click to expand...

+1 on that explanation.

There are certain types of "pioneers" doing stuff that is so out and obtuse that the fan base among a peer group is really small or non-existent. I think a pioneer needs some degree of widespread recognition within a peer group.
 
Bonham was no phenom but came at a time where music was changing and the music was pioneering. There were drummers like Tony Williams and others that ran circles around Bonham. I believe due to his untimely demise, it catapulted his somewhat above average playing to iconic status.

I believe he would be embarrassed beyond belief if he were to conpete in a drum off today...

I also don't agree with the notion that the innovators of today are doing things that were done before. No one was playing double stroke rolls with their feet or blast beats or any very technical time sig changes similar to what's going on today. Even the fusion and prog cats back then played a much more simplistic style of drumming. I still enjoy listening to Mahavishnu or Rtf or Crimson and many others but they are no where near as good as the fusion or prog guys of today.
 
Bongo Congo said:
Thanks for the links to all these drummers, it's cool to check out some stuff I hadn't heard. Some cool playing...

"Pioneers", though... that's a really tough concept to solidify. It can't mean "he came up with a new 4/4 beat" or "his drums sound a little different than everybody else's". Or are we saying that's what it means?

It certainly can't mean in a purely technical sense. Because there's a mathematical limit to how you can coordinate your hands and how fast you can play, and that's been reached (or at least, has been achieved to such an extent of speed and coordination that, really, a few extra beats or a little more tempo are not going to radically alter the perception of it). You show me some guy playing some really elaborate coordinated rhythmic/"rudimental" structure... and I'll show you somebody who already did it.

Herein, I think, lies the problem: to be a "pioneer" of "new" drumming, you need "new" music. That's what Bonham had, that's what they all had.... music that nobody had tried to interpret before.

Find the music that nobody has heard yet, and you'll find the drumming that nobody has heard yet.
Click to expand...

+2 on this. I was thinking that I see some very interesting work in drummers I see live in local bands / clubs as well as some of the newer alternative bands. Maybe not the fastest or most technical, but interesting and different (to me).
 
Just a thought . . . a pioneer is somebody who does something forthe first time or creates/instigates a paradigm shift.

On the other hand, an innovator is a person who makes changes andintroduces new methods or procedures . . . a creative person who takes the establishedgenre to a new level.

By those definitions, would any of the artists previously mentioned(including Bonzo, Ringo, Papa, Buddy, or Krupa) be considered pioneers orinnovators . . . NAD

 
I agree with Bongo. Look at the history;
Baby Dodds; birth of jazz.
Papa Joe; Birth of swing
Kenny Clarke; Birth of be bop.
Earl Palmer; Birth of Rock 'n Roll
Zigaboo; Birth of funk
Bonzo; Birth of hard rock
ect.
 
atomicmorganic said:
I agree with Bongo. Look at the history;
Baby Dodds; birth of jazz.
Papa Joe; Birth of swing
Kenny Clarke; Birth of be bop.
Earl Palmer; Birth of Rock 'n Roll
Zigaboo; Birth of funk
Bonzo; Birth of hard rock
ect.
Click to expand...

Thats a definitive chronology, for sure, but what has been born lately ? Even with the genres and sub genres and sub sub genres that are categorized today, whats new under the sun ?

Jasmin Levi is . Gypsy jazz is. But these are not propelled by pioneering drummers. They say that the human voice is the first instrument. Its there we'll find doorways to new frontiers.
 
BennyK said:
atomicmorganic said:
I agree with Bongo. Look at the history;
Baby Dodds; birth of jazz.
Papa Joe; Birth of swing
Kenny Clarke; Birth of be bop.
Earl Palmer; Birth of Rock 'n Roll
Zigaboo; Birth of funk
Bonzo; Birth of hard rock
ect.
Click to expand...

Thats a definitive chronology, for sure, but what has been born lately ? Even with the genres and sub genres and sub sub genres that are categorized today, whats new under the sun ?

Jasmin Levi is . Gypsy jazz is. But these are not propelled by pioneering drummers. They say that the human voice is the first instrument. Its there we'll find doorways to new frontiers.
Click to expand...
True, we are still waiting for the next new thing. IMHO it will more than likely involve computers and techno stuff. Notice that on my list, the first 3 new music styles did not rely on any vocal music. It was primarily instrumental. Sub genres are just a way of refining the old.
 
I think that there might not be very many new folks breaking ground in their respective genres like Bonham,Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Zigaboo Modeleste, Ringo, etc. I almost think that it doesn't really matter though. I think that music is like DNA and so there's an endless amount of possibilities re-arranging the same elements. Even if we don't see folks come around like the aforementioned that are superstars, there's always going to be new folks that while not necessarily as groundbreaking are still coming up with enough that's new with what they do to keep it interesting.

A few that I'd put in the "interesting," if not quite as groundbreaking as the old heroes are:
Questlove - His mix of machinelike precision and funky swing is pretty great and pretty unique.
John Convertino of Calexico - This guy's got a really nice blend of latin stuff along with Elvin Jones-like polyrythms, but is playing in what's basically a rock band. Also does a lot of really snappy things with brushes... more than just about anyone that I'm aware of outside of the jazz idiom.
 
pbloxam said:
Bonham was no phenom but came at a time where music was changing and the music was pioneering. There were drummers like Tony Williams and others that ran circles around Bonham. I believe due to his untimely demise, it catapulted his somewhat above average playing to iconic status.

I believe he would be embarrassed beyond belief if he were to conpete in a drum off today...

I also don't agree with the notion that the innovators of today are doing things that were done before. No one was playing double stroke rolls with their feet or blast beats or any very technical time sig changes similar to what's going on today. Even the fusion and prog cats back then played a much more simplistic style of drumming. I still enjoy listening to Mahavishnu or Rtf or Crimson and many others but they are no where near as good as the fusion or prog guys of today.
Click to expand...
Couldn't disagree more. These greats played what the music called for. No way you can make a claim that they couldn't have mastered blast beats, odd time sigs, or anything else out of the "norm".

Thanks for the lessons in the world of "modern" drummers. I've learned a lot of great names :icon_smile:
I don't even know how I would define "pioneer". I've just seen the term mentioned before and I guess I would define it as somebody that plays like never before. But as already been pointed out, we only have four arms and legs :???:
 
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