Jazz and China Cymbals

  • Thread starter JimmySticks
  • Start date
    • This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
JimmySticks

JimmySticks

DFO Master
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
3,096
Reaction score
4,023
Location
Queens NY
I'm playing mostly jazz these days and I'm wondering if I should invest in a good china cymbal. I've only played a cheap china and I no longer even have that to gauge whether I'd like the sound for jazz.

I know Mel Lewis used one throughout his career, but I'm no Mel Lewis(!) and I'm not sure I can make good use of one. I don't hear to many other jazz guys using them either.

So what do you think, do china's and jazz go together?
 
Yes;if you're just going to be mainly at home/ practice and or small room you needn't go for 22" of swish china. Wait

I take that back:

SOLD 22" 50s ride and 22" swish Zildjian

2 vintage A Zildjians. 22" 50s ride. Slight keyhole. It's Kind of a Funny partial crack looking area near the Mount hole. The previous owner partially drilled the end of the crack. Pictures of both sides. No other issues. Looks a little rough, but I really fine specimen of a vintage a. 22"...
www.drumforum.org www.drumforum.org

Steal of the Year ^^^^^^^ 22" ^^^AVedis
 
JDA said:
Yes;if you're just going to be mainly at home/ practice and or small room you needn't go for 22" of swish china. Wait

I take that back:

SOLD 22" 50s ride and 22" swish Zildjian

2 vintage A Zildjians. 22" 50s ride. Slight keyhole. It's Kind of a Funny partial crack looking area near the Mount hole. The previous owner partially drilled the end of the crack. Pictures of both sides. No other issues. Looks a little rough, but I really fine specimen of a vintage a. 22"...
www.drumforum.org www.drumforum.org

Steal of the Year ^^^^^^^ 22" ^^^AVedis
Click to expand...

Yeah, wow, quite a deal for sure.

Just don't want to go that big and I'm not ready to jump in yet.. I know, I know, I'll regret it... :pale:
 
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
JDA said:
that's sort of a wise decision..but If ya play it gently..wow what a ride huh.
that s a 2 for 1 deal like getting it for 100+ $
Click to expand...

Being wise is no fun though... :blink:

So in general, you like china cymbals for jazz?
 
China cymbals have been an integral part of jazz long before Big Sid and Davey Tough made them popular. Mel Lewis, then Jeff Hamilton (among others) have carried the torch forward. The most articulate proponents are Mel Lewis and Jeff Hamilton in my opinion. You may want to take the time to get to know them both in-depth if you haven't already. Here are some starting points:



 
Last edited:
JimmySticks said:
jazz?
Click to expand...
yes jazz; funk jazz, rock jazz, solo jazz, vintage jazz, new age jazz, folk jazz, classical gas jazz, cover band jazz, fusion jazz, Yes .
they're integral to have at least a few around..the attention to selecting one may not the same as the 'attention' paid to hats and rides but..nice to have around..
 
Last edited:
mtarrani said:
China cymbals have been an integral part of jazz long before Big Sid and Davey Tough made them popular. Mel Lewis, then Jeff Hamilton (among others) have carried the torch forward. The most articulate proponents are Mel Lewis and Jeff Hamilton in my opinion. You may want to take the time to get to know them both in-depth if you haven't already. Here are some starting points:



Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm a big fan of Jeff's, but only came upon him more recently. I forgot he plays a china. Thanks for the reminder!
 
JDA said:
yes jazz; funk jazz, rock jazz, solo jazz, vintage jazz, new age jazz, folk jazz, classical gas jazz, cover band jazz, fusion jazz, Yes .
they're integral to have at least a few around..the attention to selecting one may not the same as the 'attention' paid to hats and rides but..nice to have around..
Click to expand...

You bring up a good point.

China's are meant to be trashy, so does it pay to invest big money in one?
 
DrummerJustLikeDad said:
I discovered this video once when looking for some product demos, and I have returned to it again and again just to hear this guy play.

His touch is simply sublime, and he’ll give you a quick and broad sketch of just what a China can do for jazz.

Enjoy.

Click to expand...

That Bosphorus blows the others out of the water.
 
This was my thinking as well when I got my China.
It's an 18" Zildjian ZHT, and it's a good mix between cymbal and trash can lid imo. It was definitely not expensive.

I also have an oddball old bent-up crash, 16" I think, that I sometimes mount on top of the China for a really dry, trashy sound in a stack that I can "tune" to complement the other cymbals I'm using. ;)


JimmySticks said:
You bring up a good point.

China's are meant to be trashy, so does it pay to invest big money in one?
Click to expand...
 
wraub said:
This was my thinking as well when I got my China.
It's an 18" Zildjian ZHT, and it's a good mix between cymbal and trash can lid imo. It was definitely not expensive.

I also have an oddball old bent-up crash, 16" I think, that I sometimes mount on top of the China for a really dry, trashy sound in a stack that I can "tune" to complement the other cymbals I'm using. ;)
Click to expand...

That's funny, the only china I ever owned was a Zildjian 18" ZBT, which is in the same family of cymbals. Yeah, certainly not a great cymbal, but I liked it. It did the job of sounding trashy and it sizzled very nicely with two dimes taped on! It might be a little bright for jazz though.
 
JimmySticks said:
You bring up a good point.

China's are meant to be trashy, so does it pay to invest big money in one?
Click to expand...
Yes and No. I have a surprising Pearl CX 500 18" China type. That's brass. Early 80s maybe.
But still there is a difference. Some trash is exquisite some trash is just trash.
So yes/no it makes a difference.
The difference is If you see them as one-hit wonders (there it wouldn't matter) or as smooth longer distance Ride cymbals (there it better matter)
So there's the choice.
 
I bought one of the 22" Crescent Hammertone Chinas (Jeff Hamilton's model). I thought that I would absolutely love it as a trashy, dry ride. Unfortunately, I could never get that cymbal to sound right. I definitely don't have the touch of Jeff, but it was just always too loud, brash and cutting for me. I could never get it to play well with my overall sound. The idea of buying another china for jazz intrigues me, but I definitely won't be going with the 22" Hammertone.
 
andlours said:
I bought one of the 22" Crescent Hammertone Chinas (Jeff Hamilton's model). I thought that I would absolutely love it as a trashy, dry ride. Unfortunately, I could never get that cymbal to sound right. I definitely don't have the touch of Jeff, but it was just always too loud, brash and cutting for me. I could never get it to play well with my overall sound. The idea of buying another china for jazz intrigues me, but I definitely won't be going with the 22" Hammertone.
Click to expand...
That would be my dream cymbal! Granted, I have never touched one in person, but I have hears many sound files of them, some with drummers other than Jeff playing them. Still, if I come across the right deal when I have money in my pocket I will grab one.
 
JDA said:
Yes and No. I have a surprising Pearl CX 500 18" China type. That's brass. Early 80s maybe.
But still there is a difference. Some trash is exquisite some trash is just trash.
So yes/no it makes a difference.
The difference is If you see them as one-hit wonders (there it wouldn't matter) or as smooth longer distance Ride cymbals (there it better matter)
So there's the choice.
Click to expand...

Good points again.

Yeah, I would be riding it, so it would need to be better than a one hit wonder and be on the dark/dry side.

I'm on the hunt for a Kashian china, which is a rare bird, to complete my set of Kashians. My guess is I'll need something else until one shows up, if it ever does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDA
I far prefer Paiste’s sadly discontinued Traditional Medium Light Swish and the current Masters Swish to anything currently being made by Zildjian or Sabian or the Turkish companies .

The Paiste swishes are very musical without the Uber harsh Clangy undertones.
They sit well in the mix and band mates don’t wince when you play them .
 
drumreverie said:
Here is Peter Erskine playing the model of cymbal similar to the one made famous by Mel Lewis.

Click to expand...

In actuality Mel used a really Chinese made China for most of his more famous recordings . It was very distinctive compared to the Zildjian Swish Knockers and Istanbul swish cymbals he used in later life .
Two fine examples of him playing this authentic China/Swish cymbal are :
Terry Gibbs - Dream Band
Maynard Ferguson - The Blues Roar

Mel’s China had a very pronounced stick sound and was less clangy than many of the swish and China cymbals made today .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top