Paiste Durabiltiy

[John117]

I used to think the whole Paiste less durable thing was mith but I've just got back from a kit with a craked 2002 and heard too many stories of craked Paistes. Are they rally less durabel? Why? Is it me or are 2002 B8 looking...? Anything eles as expensive as 2002 is B20 as far as I can tell... :/

 

[RickP]

I own Paiste cymbals and I have had some for a very long time and never cracked or dinged any. I play in some pretty loud bands and I always make sure to use cymbal types and sizes that are appropriate to the volume level of the music I am playing.I also practice good cymbal playing technique.
I have only ever cracked one cymbal and that was an 8 " A Zildjian splash cymbal from the 70's.

 

[Coelacanth]

The only Paiste I own is a 13" Dark Crisp hat that came to be already badly cracked...I know that means nothing. I don't know whether it's public perception or what, but I have seen references to Paistes being more brittle here, on other forums, on customer reviews, all over the place. I've heard similar things about Sabian B8 cymbals. Is it possible that B8 bronze, as an alloy, tends to be less forgiving than B20? Don't take my word for it, because I have no experience with Paiste cymbals thus far, but I gotta wonder if there's a grain of truth to all the stories...

 

[troymiller]

The only Paiste I own is a 13" Dark Crisp hat that came to be already badly cracked...I know that means nothing. I don't know whether it's public perception or what, but I have seen references to Paistes being more brittle here, on other forums, on customer reviews, all over the place. I've heard similar things about Sabian B8 cymbals. Is it possible that B8 bronze, as an alloy, tends to be less forgiving than B20? Don't take my word for it, because I have no experience with Paiste cymbals thus far, but I gotta wonder if there's a grain of truth to all the stories...

I agree - I've seen plenty of reference to Paiste being more brittle. However, as a Paiste player myself, I haven't experienced it. I use primarily 2oo2's these days - have for awhile now. I'm not a hard hitter and I think I have pretty decent technique. No complaints from me about Paiste.

It has crossed my mind in the past that B8 in general is probably louder than B20. I wonder if the 'brittle' notion comes from extremely hard hitters (with bad technique) that use B8 stuff because it's louder, but break them because they hit hard with bad technique...?

 

[drummer5359]

I currently have 17 Paiste cymbals, and I've had no problems with any of them. (I've never cracked any cvmbal from any manufacturer for that matter.)

 

[Coelacanth]

It has crossed my mind in the past that B8 in general is probably louder than B20. I wonder if the 'brittle' notion comes from extremely hard hitters (with bad technique) that use B8 stuff because it's louder, but break them because they hit hard with bad technique...?

I considered that, in the case of B8 Sabians...since they're targeted at beginner drummers, who probably haven't all learned proper cymbal-striking technique, it could result in a higher-than-normal percentage of breakage. But that wouldn't be the case with Paistes, as they're comparatively more expensive--or even cost-prohibitive--at all levels when compared to equivalent brands. I suspect a MUCH higher percentage of new drummers get into ZBT's, B8's, ZHT's, ZXT's, Xs20's, etc. than PST3's or PST5's, let alone the higher Paiste lines. Even here, you almost never hear newbies asking about PST3's or PST5's.

So, at least the stories about Paistes breaking more easily isn't necessarily referring to the beginner lines near as much as it is with Sabian B8's, for example...strange indeed.

 

[Ron Bullard]

I'm sure I'll be lambasted here, but I've cracked more than a few Paiste cymbals - 2002s and Signatures. I will attribute it to high volume, heavy playing, and the heavy sticks I was using at the time. I've never had such issues with Zildjian(A) or Sabian(AA) though.

 

[SteveB]

I've cracked all the major brands so I wouldn't be a good person to talk to.

But as a once cracker of cymbals I will say that the B20's seem to crack along the grooves, often just below the bell. The Paistes I've used (mostly 2002's) would just split at the edge and I went through literally dozens of them. After a while pieces would just fall off once you got to the point of multiple cracks.

I don't break cymbals anymore because I'm not playing anywhere near as hard as I used to or in bands where that kind of power was needed using Lincoln Logs for sticks. I have many Paistes here that sound great and I plan on keeping it that way. Paiste crashes ARE brittle with less cushion than a typical Zildjian. The thinner ones will actually hold up better than the mediums because there is some flex there. I've never broken a 505, again, because of that built in flex.

 

[repete]

I've cracked quite a few Paiste Sig Full crashes but thats it - they stopped covering them under warranty for me after the 3rd one broke (they broke across the lathe lines, not on the grooves)....That being said, I've had my Sig hi-hats for almost 20 years.The top cymbal is starting to keyhole a bit but they are holding up fine and sound great

 

[joshranwest]

only cracked one cymbal, recently (DFO thread about it) in 28 years of playing. I only use Paiste 2oo2 now, and never cracked a Paiste. the splash I cracked was a Zildjian. all these claims they are brittle, in my mind, are not accurate. Paiste is an amazing cymbal in my book! if you use proper playing technique you will be fine I think, with any cymbal.

 

[FuzzBucket]

I generally hit pretty hard since the bands I gravitate towards are usually on the loud side of loud. I've broken a lot of B20 cymbals of both Zildjian and Sabian, and 2oo2 B8. I mix them up almost evenly and can't say that one of the above gives up the ghost faster than another. But I've found one exception: the Paiste Signatures go much faster than the 2oo2s or any B20 I've played. I don't know what it is about that B15 but at this point, I've sworn off of them forever because they disintegrate to quickly. I also don't dig their sterile glassy sound.

 

[Ludwig Von Buzztoven]

I am a giant Paiste fan, having switched to them from ZIldjian several years ago. I mainly play 2002's for rock, Trads for jazz. My main HH's are Sig SE's. I also have a Proto ride, a 3000 flat ride that I just bought used, and a pair of Sound Formula HH's. I haven't done one bit of damage to them, and they DO get smakced around quite a bit, especially my 2002 ride.

I managed to drop both my 20" 2002 standard ride and my 18" 2002 Medium crash on their edges. It left dings, but didn't come close to cracking them.

Buzz

 

[homeby5]

Another Paiste player here. Play Sigs. and 2002 series. Never cracked one. I play classic rock and jazz, but don't bash. My feeling is that they are maybe not able to withstand pounding, bad playing technique as well as some others. Learn to play 'em right and you won't find a sweeter cymbal IMO

 

[gezz]

Another Paiste player here. Play Sigs. and 2002 series. Never cracked one. I play classic rock and jazz, but don't bash. My feeling is that they are maybe not able to withstand pounding, bad playing technique as well as some others. Learn to play 'em right and you won't find a sweeter cymbal IMO

Absolutely right!!!

 

[shilohjim]

I have many Paiste cymbals from different lines and have never cracked one. But then again, I haven't even broken a stick in two years.

 

[slinginit]

Hmmm....The quality and flexibility of the bronze is dependent upon its preparation and tempering as well as its component metals. That said and all things being equal, it seems that B20 would be more brittle due to its higher tin content. Conversely, B8 bronze should be more maleable due to its higher copper content. The inherent maleability of B8 makes it a choice bronze for Zildjian and Sabian to manufacture lower-line cymbals b/c they don't require as much rolling or workmanship as their B20 lines.

 

[dustjacket]

Just don't use caveman sticks..

 

[EvEnStEvEn]

I played a full set of trouble-free 2oo2s throughout most of the 80s & 90s thanks to Aquarian cymbal springs.

It was combination of 16/17/18/19/20 Crashes and Mediums
18" china type
11" splash
20" Heavy ride
14" SE hats with a heavy top

The SE heavy top hat finally developed a 1/4" fracture on the edge after I accidentally adjusted the clutch too snugly at one gig where I was in a hurry - and that's all it took. It broke my heart because I had those hats for 10 years and I paid almost $400 for them new.

That was my only cracked Paiste cymbal.

Signature alloy, however, is notoriously brittle. The internet is littered with accounts of fractured Sigs.

 

[Luddite]

I'm a reformed cymbal cracker of catholic tastes---Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste---I've cracked 'em all. I was playing in extremely loud bands using either Regal Tip Quantums (remember those ballbats?) or 2b's. It was a combination of too much force, too large sticks and lack of proper technique. Sabians tended to hold up the best (I only cracked two of those, and have used them by far the most), followed by Zildjian (also 2, but I've played Sabians much more frequently) and Paiste bringing up the rear (6---and 2002's to boot). I now use Aquarian Cymbal Springs, and it has helped immensely. I'm still a very hard hitter when the spirit moves me and the Ibuprophen kicks in, but haven't cracked a cymbal while using them. I would bet that 2002's would hold up fine for me now.

 

[FuzzBucket]

I had a 2oo2 Thin Crash that developed some very noticeable edge dents all around it. They weren't huge but they were noticeable in the right light. After I sold that crash (before I broke it) I picked up a 20" Giant Beat that developed very similar edge dents IN ONE REHEARSAL. I returned that crash the next day and traded it for a 2oo2 20" Crash and it did the same thing.

I've used a ton of 2002 Medium Crashes with no trouble and my current favorite ride is a 22" 2oo2 Ride that I crash on quite hard at times and no problems there, so I'm thinking that Paiste lathes their thinner cymbals down too thin at the edges.

Anyone else experience this?