Repairing cymbal cracks?

[multijd]

I’m sure there must be threads here that detail repairing cymbal cracks. I have a hihat cymbal with a 3/4 in crack starting at the edge and moving toward the center ( not with the grooves but against). I know that people generally cut a curved area out that smooths this crack toward the edge but I’m not sure how far the angle should reach nor what the best method or tool is for this cut. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Devindrums78]

The wider the angle, the better…in my experience. Dremels work great for cutting and smoothing the area.

 

[robthetimekeeper]

The final cut should look like a bell curve and be smooth to the touch. This is a great video explaining the process I use. They use an angle grinder but you can also use a Dremel with a metal cutting wheel. Also, if you don't have a file, sandpaper will also work to clean up the edges. Be sure to at least wear safety glasses!

 

[drummerjohn333]

Some general rules:

1) Cut a bit MORE than the end of your crack. I usually go about 10-20% further than the end of the Crack. This is because there could be deeper/longer cracking on the inside that you can not see. Also simply this: you can not always see the absolute end of the Crack. If you do not cut all of it out, it will continue to grow after the fact. Think of it as like cancer or rust. If any is missed, it will continue to grow after the fact.

2) Go slow, avoid friction/heat, use lubricant. The more heat is generated, the more brittle it becomes and therefore more prone to future cracking. Tension is a factor that is involved here and the less interference with the original state of the cymbal - the better.

3) Smooth is best. Buy many good files, use sandpaper. In the end, you want a smooth repair to prevent any rough edges, flea bites. This is not only to avoid cutting yourself on it, but also prevent a flea bite which can grow into a new crack.

4) Be safe. Injuries suck. This activity has huge injury potential. Use caution.

 

[kookel]

For me, a crack that’s only 3/4 of an inch should be filed so both edges are not touching, then drill a hole drilled just past the end of the crack. Holds up for me just fine.

This is advice I got from this forum, and good advice at that.

I do have a cymbal that had a larger crack repaired via a curve as described above. just depends on the kind of crack it is.

 

[Tama CW]

Being only a small hi hat I don't think you have the space needed to make a nice sweeping cut out and not radically alter the sound.
I'd vote for putting in a single hole for now at the end of the crack area. Then monitor it every week or so to ensure it's not progressing.
If it does progress, then you'll have to get more aggressive in the cut. If you don't play on that side of the hat, it probably won't progress.

I recall the last cracked hi hat cymbal I had. Someone cut out a 1" triangle from edge. Doh! And of course it started cracking again from that sharp tip.
I had to drill out a bit forward and then file down. It was a light new beat top. And even after that the pair sounded great. Turned into a nice budge
HH pair for a little jazz/blues kit.

I just got a med thin 16" Old stamp K Istanbul with a 2" bell base crack. I'm a little leery of trying to make a cut out or even drill holes at either end. For now I think
I'll just play on the opposite site and monitor the crack length. It's a pretty tight crack but light does shine through most of it. Lost about 20% of the tone.

 

[multijd]

All good ideas. Thanks everyone. I wonder if I could drill along the crack and then file that out. I’ve done this on cracks that follow the lathe rings. My teacher did this on a cymbal I have and it has lasted 40+ years. Of course this crack starts at the edge and then moves toward the center so against grain so to speak. It might be worth a try and then see how it goes, keep an eye on it.

 

[Tarkus]

I’m sure there must be threads here that detail repairing cymbal cracks. I have a hihat cymbal with a 3/4 in crack starting at the edge and moving toward the center ( not with the grooves but against). I know that people generally cut a curved area out that smooths this crack toward the edge but I’m not sure how far the angle should reach nor what the best method or tool is for this cut. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Just wanted to point out that they can be repaired without cutting and drilling. You have to find some company engaged in 'Laser Beam Welding'. I could recommend one in Germany (called LPT), but I'm sure you'll find this in US as well.

Especially for a Hihat top, this is a quite useful solution:

Short cracks on a vintage 602 Sound edge top.
But works as well on longer cracks like in this Istanbul splash:

The sound remained unchainged. I played these cymbals now for years after the repair and got the feeling, that if they would break again, it would be somewhere else.

 

[sjrcass]

Just wanted to point out that they can be repaired without cutting and drilling. You have to find some company engaged in 'Laser Beam Welding'. I could recommend one in Germany (called LPT), but I'm sure you'll find this in US as well.

Especially for a Hihat top, this is a quite useful solution:
View attachment 608796
View attachment 608798

Short cracks on a vintage 602 Sound edge top.
But works as well on longer cracks like in this Istanbul splash:

View attachment 608799
View attachment 608804
The sound remained unchainged. I played these cymbals now for years after the repair and got the feeling, that if they would break again, it would be somewhere else.

This is very cool...do you remember what you paid for these repairs? I live in Ripoff Britain, so even if I can find someone willing to work, I'll need to take your estimate and multiply it by three!

 

[TPC]

I have a couple hihats that had edge cracks. One, an early-60’s A, I did a U-shaped cut with a Dremel.

The other, a 14.25” Zenjian (marching cymbal that I use as a hihat), that I did a narrow slit.

Both worked out fine.

 

[sjrcass]

Just wanted to point out that they can be repaired without cutting and drilling. You have to find some company engaged in 'Laser Beam Welding'. I could recommend one in Germany (called LPT), but I'm sure you'll find this in US as well.

Especially for a Hihat top, this is a quite useful solution:
View attachment 608796
View attachment 608798

Short cracks on a vintage 602 Sound edge top.
But works as well on longer cracks like in this Istanbul splash:

View attachment 608799
View attachment 608804
The sound remained unchainged. I played these cymbals now for years after the repair and got the feeling, that if they would break again, it would be somewhere else.

Thanks again for this, Tarkus. Very interesting to see the Vintage Drummer interview with Jake as well, and learn about the use of laser micro fusion for cymbal repair. It seems the reason it works is the minimal amount of heat involved in the process. Shame that he still isn't doing this work, but as I'm in the UK it wouldn't help anyway.

As I expected, not having any luck finding anyone who wants to do this in Workshy Britain (can't even get the regular cymbal repair guys to call back), but if anyone out there has a good contact, I'd love to hear it. Tarkus, do you have the contact details for the folks in Germany you used, and how much the repair cost? I have a cracked 22" Byzance Dual that this would be a perfect solution for...

 

[Tarkus]

Hi sjrcass
The company is called LPT (for Laser Precision Technology GmbH), and their head quarter is in the little city of Paderborn (Germany). I got my cymbals repaired at their outstation in the city of Heilbronn (southern Germany) about 4 or 5 years ago. I don't know, if this outstation still exists, as I looked it up now, but couldn't find it on their website anymore.
I paid about 50€ for 3 cymbals (2 HiHat tops and a Splash), if I remember right. The price was based on 'time' for repair and 'goodwill' against me, as I promised to get more drummers there to repair their cymbals. And I brought them the cymbals in person. They didn't have a hassle with packing/unpacking and I could describe precisely what to do. Weeven did some 'experimenting' with small cymbal peaces to test, which welds are more stable.
But finally, I couldn't keep my promises, as the drummers I know didn't go there, for unknown reasons. Maybe they don't break cymbals, are too rich, are not into recycling, just lazy, or don't have cymbals worth to save, or all together, I don't know. So, I fear, they wouldn't do it this cheap anymore.
This weekend, I'll be busy. But next week, I could give them a call and ask, if they still offer this kind of service, and what to do in your case. If it's OK with you. Would it be still worth, if you calculate shipping costs? UK, right? And I bet they will not guarantee anything. They didn't with me, but the repaired cymbals lasted until today, and I was treating them hard.

 

[sjrcass]

Hi sjrcass
The company is called LPT (for Laser Precision Technology GmbH), and their head quarter is in the little city of Paderborn (Germany). I got my cymbals repaired at their outstation in the city of Heilbronn (southern Germany) about 4 or 5 years ago. I don't know, if this outstation still exists, as I looked it up now, but couldn't find it on their website anymore.
I paid about 50€ for 3 cymbals (2 HiHat tops and a Splash), if I remember right. The price was based on 'time' for repair and 'goodwill' against me, as I promised to get more drummers there to repair their cymbals. And I brought them the cymbals in person. They didn't have a hassle with packing/unpacking and I could describe precisely what to do. Weeven did some 'experimenting' with small cymbal peaces to test, which welds are more stable.
But finally, I couldn't keep my promises, as the drummers I know didn't go there, for unknown reasons. Maybe they don't break cymbals, are too rich, are not into recycling, just lazy, or don't have cymbals worth to save, or all together, I don't know. So, I fear, they wouldn't do it this cheap anymore.
This weekend, I'll be busy. But next week, I could give them a call and ask, if they still offer this kind of service, and what to do in your case. If it's OK with you. Would it be still worth, if you calculate shipping costs? UK, right? And I bet they will not guarantee anything. They didn't with me, but the repaired cymbals lasted until today, and I was treating them hard.

That's all great info...I'm surprised no other local drummers took advantage of the work you did to get that relationship going. Seems like it was a fair price for the work, and they did a good job.

I'm going to look into the shipping costs, and try the local laser welders in the south of the UK one more time-- if no luck, I'll PM you for an introduction to LPT. There's got to be someone else in the world other than Jake and LPT who can do this kind of work-- and it would be a huge help to the drumming community everywhere! Thanks again, Tarkus!

 

[Slingerland3ply]

How much heat is created by this laser?

 

[zenstat]

How much heat is created by this laser?

Do you really want to know a specific temperature at the point of weld?

Laser beam welding - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

or do you just want an assurance that it will not adversely affect the tempering of B20? I can give you that since I had it done on an Old K in 2015 which is still going.

Vintage cymbal cracks - laser repair. Who currently is doing these?

A friend asked me about bell hole area repairs on some old K's. Jake Winebrenner doesn't appear to be reachable these days. Anyone know of other guys out there doing quality laser or crack repair work on 30's to 70's old K's? I know one of the cymbals this guy wants to repair is missing a...

www.drumforum.org

 

[Tama CW]

There's a company out of update NY called "Buffalo Cymbal Smiths - Tom Foote drumming" that is doing crack repairs with TIG. They are claiming good results.
With thin splash cymbals being the only ones showing a bit of recurrence. Not sure I'm going to use them on a bell base crack (and bell hole cracks) on a 16" K Istanbul Int. Stamp.
Price seemed a very reasonable $60 which included return shipping from NY to CT. When making such a decision you have to figure if the cymbal gains any
net value in the process. In the case of this one the value might jump up from $100-$125 to $175-$200. Not really sure. And all buyers look at this differently.
Some don't care if they're repaired....they're still technically messed up and worth at most half the price of an undamaged one.

 

[zenstat]

There's a company out of update NY called "Buffalo Cymbal Smiths - Tom Foote drumming" that is doing crack repairs with TIG. They are claiming good results.
With thin splash cymbals being the only ones showing a bit of recurrence. Not sure I'm going to use them on a bell base crack (and bell hole cracks) on a 16" K Istanbul Int. Stamp.
Price seemed a very reasonable $60 which included return shipping from NY to CT. When making such a decision you have to figure if the cymbal gains any
net value in the process. In the case of this one the value might jump up from $100-$125 to $175-$200. Not really sure. And all buyers look at this differently.
Some don't care if they're repaired....they're still technically messed up and worth at most half the price of an undamaged one.

TIG involves much more risk of heat related distemper compared to laser beam welding based on looking into different possibilities long ago. But maybe times have changed and the technology is better now.

 

[Tarkus]

TIG involves much more risk of heat related distemper compared to laser beam welding based on looking into different possibilities long ago. But maybe times have changed and the technology is better now.

Physics didn't change since then. Tungsten inert gas (TIG) welding is a completely different technique than laser beam welding. If they are constantly mentioned together in the same context, it's no surprise that people mix it up.

The heat generated by laser beam welding is at least as high as with other welding techniques. The metal has to melt, otherwise it wouldn't work. The point of laser beam welding is that only this tiny peace of 'repair metal' (which is not exactly B20, as I understood) is melted and flows in between the crack. There it solidifies and keeps the crack together like a glue. The amount of heat that goes into the cymbal is very low. But this laser beam welding is for very small welding areas only, for larger areas or stronger welds, it would take much too long (and would therefore be more expensive than other welding techniques). It's a very specialized thing.

I was surprised how flexible this 'metal scar' is. The repaired splash (see #8) is thin and can bend a lot, but the repaired crack remains stable.

But TamaCW is right, the value of the cymbal would go dramatically down. It's only for cymbals that are 'worth it' (in my case: good sound and personal reasons, as I got the Istanbul cymbals directly from the cymbal smiths). On the other hand, the value of a cracked but unrepaired cymbal is even lower.

 

[Buffalo_drummer]

I’m sure there must be threads here that detail repairing cymbal cracks. I have a hihat cymbal with a 3/4 in crack starting at the edge and moving toward the center ( not with the grooves but against). I know that people generally cut a curved area out that smooths this crack toward the edge but I’m not sure how far the angle should reach nor what the best method or tool is for this cut. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

John, isn't there a guy locally here in Buffalo that works on cymbals? Thomas Foote may be his name...

 

[jbormann]

I normally use a cutting wheel on a Dremel tool and then smooth out the cut with some 120 grit sand paper, maybe finer after the edges are cleaned up. I always start by drawing with a pencil the area than needs to be cut out, then go over it with a Sharpie. Really, it's pretty quick and straightforward l.