Tama 50th Anniversary Bell Brass

[skelt101]

Bell brass my ass. Good grief, what next, a snare "crafted from Timeless Timber Romanian River Oak" that is 1500 years old dredged from the river? Oh I forgot, that has been done with the DW R40 Neil Peart snare. You get a well made snare and set it up right and play the damn thing and hope it sounds good. Where does it end with all the baloney bells and whistles and prices. Do you think the person in row G knows or gives a rats ass what kind of snare you play or what it cost. Bonham's snare probably cost $200 back in the day. Most famous records including Ringo were done on inexpensive drums but now everyone is all about the "future value" and "vintage", not the sound. Plus I think the Tama Bell Brass snare is just butt ugly with that finish and I don't care if it is "sand cast" (been playing for 50 years and don't know or give a Finder what that means" or die cast or any other cast. It's a snare drum, you hit and it goes whack. So get the hell over it Tama people. I can just hear someone now, "well I bought it but as soon as I change out the cheap factory heads and wires it will sound great", especially for my gig at the local Moose Lodge. And yes, I am done here. So that is $4,000 worth of my opinion.

Come on, Marty. Do you think the drummer on stage/in the studio gives a rat’s ass what you think of their snare drum? The attempt to dump on this thread with a “beer is beer”-type attitude, and insinuation that anyone who purchases this drum should be considered a sucker is really beneath the forum.
I personally don’t have a dog in this hunt, being very happy with a Savage replica. That being said, I’m excited that Tama was able to bring this project to the market and for all the folks fortunate enough to call one their own. “If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up. It is so choice!” Rock on!

 

[Steech]

Bell brass my ass. Good grief, what next, a snare "crafted from Timeless Timber Romanian River Oak" that is 1500 years old dredged from the river? Oh I forgot, that has been done with the DW R40 Neil Peart snare. You get a well made snare and set it up right and play the damn thing and hope it sounds good. Where does it end with all the baloney bells and whistles and prices. Do you think the person in row G knows or gives a rats ass what kind of snare you play or what it cost. Bonham's snare probably cost $200 back in the day. Most famous records including Ringo were done on inexpensive drums but now everyone is all about the "future value" and "vintage", not the sound. Plus I think the Tama Bell Brass snare is just butt ugly with that finish and I don't care if it is "sand cast" (been playing for 50 years and don't know or give a Finder what that means" or die cast or any other cast. It's a snare drum, you hit and it goes whack. So get the hell over it Tama people. I can just hear someone now, "well I bought it but as soon as I change out the cheap factory heads and wires it will sound great", especially for my gig at the local Moose Lodge. And yes, I am done here. So that is $4,000 worth of my opinion.

What a ray of sunshine you are.

 

[Markkuliini]

Maybe the position for the site's official vulgar grumpy has opened up, and the applications start to come in?

 

[Whitten]

Bell brass my ass. Good grief, what next, a snare "crafted from Timeless Timber Romanian River Oak" that is 1500 years old dredged from the river? Oh I forgot, that has been done with the DW R40 Neil Peart snare. You get a well made snare and set it up right and play the damn thing and hope it sounds good. Where does it end with all the baloney bells and whistles and prices. Do you think the person in row G knows or gives a rats ass what kind of snare you play or what it cost.

It matters to the player. That is 100% what is important.
There is a Rick Rubin video going around advising creative people to make art for themselves. Do it for yourself, that is the only way to make honest art (music). If you start second guessing what the audience wants you are toast, likewise if you set your standard at the average audience members level.

 

[Whitten]

This is a replica of the iconic 1980 drum, not the 1990 drum.

Typo on my part......although I didn't know it was a bronze drum.

 

[mpthomson]

Just

This is for Stewart (bellbrass)! This is a very special drum! For everyone else, read below:

Out of the gate, I have no horse in this race. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. This is just my opinion having had a lot of experience with original Tama Bell Brass drums of the past, I will just say that I am in love with this drum and it has me reevaluating my entire snare drum arsenal. Over the years, I owned 6 or 7 of these original Tama Bell Brass drums, back when they were selling cheap on the used market and no one wanted them. They were looked at as "boat anchors." I bought up every single one I saw over the years. Later on, as a graduate student in the middle of a career change, I started selling them all off, one by one, to pay for school, living, life back in the day. In the end, I ended up with none, unfortunately.

Now, whether you like this drum, hate this drum, love what is stands for, hate what is stands for, feel betrayed because you can or can't afford it makes no difference to me. The fact that you can now buy this drum is a miracle of sorts. In reality, so few of the originals were ever made because they were crazy expensive even back in the early 80s that so few drummers would ever get a chance of owning one, let alone seeing one in their lifetime. This is just a nice opportunity for someone that really wants to have one, made to the old specs. We are going to forgo the sand cast vs centrifugal cast argument currently going on. In my opinion, blind folded, strictly listening with your ears and playing the drum under your sticks, you would never be able to tell the difference. Now, comparing a 40+ year old drum that has been played, gigged, aged, etc... for nearly half a century to a new drum, in general, is an apples vs oranges comparison as well. Just like a precious Stradivarius Violin, the more you play it, the better it will sound. Again, my opinion. Let's move on...

Back to the 50th Anniversary Bell Brass...It is gorgeous aesthetically. Seeing the Mastercraft strainer, one touch tone control, Superstar Badge, and lugs all brand new and shiny is something special to behold. This drum looks right, feels right, is right!

There is a certain MOJO to this drum, but I will try to stick to the facts: Strictly to what my ears are hearing and my hands are feeling behind the sticks. Stewart, it is at least as good as the original I sold you 20+ years ago that eventually ended up in "you know who's hands." I am absolutely stunned and blown away. Notwithstanding the current sand vs centrifugal casting argument, the shell specs are just like the original, along with the snare bed, which is something that none of the "tribute" Bell Brass drums I have seen or owned seem to get right. The profile of the machined bearing edge maintains it's exact bevel angle even at the bearing edge, i.e., it is NOT flattened out (filed down) or deeply cut/machined/scooped out...it maintains the very same profile angle at the snare bed and is very shallow, just like the originals. The Mastercraft strainer is definitely adding something special to the drum, The Mastercraft strainer is the "special sauce" to the overall big picture on this drum. It adds a certain dryness to the fatness of the tone on this drum, in a really good way...it is that "splat" juice to the sound, no matter how low, medium, or high you tune the drum, it maintains that character of tone throughout. It's hard to put into words because in general, dryness when describing a snare drum is a pejorative for me... I hate dry and boxy sounding snare drums, but this is NOT how this drum sounds or feels. This drum is different. It is both FAT and DRY in a really amazing way with that incredible "Splat" snare spread. Warm, FAT, and DRY in the best sense of the phrase. That is the best I can do. It is absolutely a beast of a drum, different from every other cast bronze drum I own sonically and it will get a lot of stand time moving forward. I just love it. I am NOT saying that this is the drum for all occasions, but I am saying that it is an amazing drum if you like that type of sound. Also, the Mastercraft extended wires are very sensitive to minute changes and can easily be overtightened, causing the drum to be choked, so caution should be taken. With respect to extended wires, they are closer sonically to the Rogers Dynasonic than the Ludwig Super Sensitive, in terms of tone and feel coming off the head. A Rogers Dynasonic snare system can easily be over tensioned/tightened, causing the wires to choke the drum. However, if you fine tune the system, being careful not over tighten the snare wires (both inside the frame and with the wires on the drum), it gives you a unique feel and sensitivity that reminds me of the Mastercraft snare system. The Ludwig Super Sensitive just never feels like this and is the "odd man out" when it comes to describing the feel. The old Sonor parallel system on the Signature Cast Bronze 8x14 Snare drum with the copper plating is more like the Ludwig Super Sensitive, if that makes sense. I don't know why this is so, but to my ears and hands this is how I experience it. The Mastercraft Snare mechanism adds the "special sauce" to this amazing cast bronze snare drum, IMHO.

At any rate, I really love this drum. Now that the originals are trading in the $7,500-$15,000 range, it brings it a bit more into purchase range for someone willing to sell off "a few" drums in order to afford one. Finally, Tama should have done this years ago. The used market for these drums has been going nuts for quite a few years and Tama surely missed out on a lot of business ($$$). Cheers! Rob

Here you go:

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Just a comment re your Stradivarius comment. There have been a number of blind tests carried out with world class violinists playing a Strad and then playing the same piece on a good quality modern Chinese violin. Once that was done other violinists and classical conductors (ie people who fully understand what they were listening to) were asked which was the Strad and which they preferred.


In the large majority of cases the listeners preferred the Chinese violin and thought it was the Strad. There's an awful lot of sentiment and emotion in revering vintage or classic instruments that sometimes isn't borne out by the reality. It sounds 'better' because the player knows what it is. And that's fine.

 

[Whitten]

In the large majority of cases the listeners preferred the Chinese violin and thought it was the Strad. There's an awful lot of sentiment and emotion in revering vintage or classic instruments that sometimes isn't borne out by the reality. It sounds 'better' because the player knows what it is. And that's fine.

yeah, yeah, yeah....I apparently have to type this on a monthly basis. You don't choose your instrument based on what other people hear or think.
Rare or expensive gear is all about the user, not really about the audience.
If you feel inspired by, and play better, using a couple of million dollars worth of Stradivarius, why not?
Usually these instruments don't sound worse than a Chinese copy. If they did people would put them in a museum and stop using them.
I've been through a bunch of rare, exotic or expensive gear. Some I thought sounded great and felt great to play, others not so much. I owned a Canopus Zelkova for a few months, recorded it, was never wowed and couldn't justify the investment I had in it, so I sold it.
On the other hand my absolute number one snare is a Craviotto Black Cherry. It just delivers every time I use it. I have owned and rented a lot of standard mainstream snare drums and I often have to fiddle to get OK results. The Craviotto comes out of it's case and sounds amazing straight away.
I don't really care whether other people 'get' the drum, or whether someone buying the record or seeing the show notices.
I notice.

 

[Marty Lowry]

Marty,
With all due respect, brother... You are missing the point. A Toyota will get you from point A to point B, but a Ferrari will be an adventure and lot more fun. What one person calls a fine wine, another would call it vinegar. The price of admission is very steep and I get it. It's not a drum for everyone and whether YOU find value in it or not is also missing the point. You aren't their target audience, obviously. Whether the high price is too restrictive for you or you don't care about a high end snare or all snares sound alike or whatever the reason, it isn't the point. This snare exists because there is a market for them and Tama finally woke up and made a proper replica. They have missed out on big $$$ for many years and they are planning on reclaiming their stakes in this Bell Brass (Bronze) game.
They 100% have a winner with this drum.

I ain't missing any point, again the point is it is a snare drum, not a piece of jewelry or a Ferrari. It is meant to play music on. It is an eyesore in my opinion compared to the beauty of my Ludwig Black Beauty hammered with brass trim and my Copperphonic hammered with tube lugs which I gaurantee would sound as good or better than this "concoction of old and new". Let's see how much of a market there will be in a couple of years other than the "It's a Ringo spec Jazz Festival so let's buy them up and see how much we can resell for and laugh at the idiots who buy them" people to whom money is no object and PLAYING drums is not a priority but collecting and flipping is.

 

[bpaluzzi]

I ain't missing any point, again the point is it is a snare drum, not a piece of jewelry or a Ferrari. It is meant to play music on. It is an eyesore in my opinion compared to the beauty of my Ludwig Black Beauty hammered with brass trim and my Copperphonic hammered with tube lugs which I gaurantee would sound as good or better than this "concoction of old and new". Let's see how much of a market there will be in a couple of years other than the "It's a Ringo spec Jazz Festival so let's buy them up and see how much we can resell for and laugh at the idiots who buy them" people to whom money is no object and PLAYING drums is not a priority but collecting and flipping is.

This must be very frustrating

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[Marty Lowry]

no, the only tools are the people who try to sell a drum for four grand knowing it aint worth it, if a drum is a tool then you are working, i dont work the drums i play them. If its a job then I aint interested

This is the correct way to look at it. Drums are tools at the end of the day!

 

[Marty Lowry]

You have a Tama BB you wanted to sell and you are upset now.v

Or are you that seller that tried to drive up the price ended up NOT selling that snare in the end

more full of crap-itis on this damn drum, IT'S A DRUM PEOPLE, NOT THE NUCLEAR BOMB! I have never seen so much not true back and forth on a damn snare drum

 

[Whitten]

Some things are expensive, some aren't. If you don't care about the drum, don't make multiple posts about it.

 

[Marty Lowry]

Wow! I think you just went "Einsteins's Theory of Relativity" on us. "It is this simple" Hey Einy, what lowers the value of a drum is the minute you walk out the door of the music store your value just dropped in half. I can't stand it now, I have to stay tuned and see how far out into the Universe this conversation will go about a snare drum.

It is this simple: If people think that reissue lowers the value of the originals, then the value has already been lowered.
Because the value of OGs is very much an abstract that's formed by a belief that their price will hold and likely increase all the time. If that belief is affected, then the value has been affected.

A real life, undeniable, example; after knowing about reissue, I would now pay less for an OG

 

[robhooper]

Just imagine being in a band with Marty here. What a thoroughly joyless experience it would be.

 

[Marty Lowry]

Some things are expensive, some aren't. If you don't care about the drum, don't make multiple posts about it.

I mean that just ENDS the conversation........mic' drop! I don't care about the drum and I will make all the posts I want to about it, free site, free country. What I care about is the gouge factor on ANY drum, whether it's this one or a "Ringo Spec" originally $150 Ludwig snare with hideous white interior that Ringo did not own or play going for $25,000, (not going of course, just listed as such) and the "we can rip the public off on this one because we can" factor. And sadly there will be people who buy this drum. Maybe it would be worth even more if someone did the "signed by Johnny Craviotto" thing with it and find some famous Tama artist to take a Sharpie to the inside. Also be sure and put the "only 200 made and this is number 121" thing in there also. Of course number 122 won't sound as good because it came later in production than 121 and by then the whole process of sand cast or whatever cast will have changed therefore changing the chemical structure and sound quaiity. Sorry, you should have bought number 1 in the series.

 

[Marty Lowry]

Just imagine being in a band with Marty here. What a thoroughly joyless experience it would be.

Actually it would be fun because I would be about the tunes and the sound, not "hey everyone, look at my new reissue Tama Bell Brass Sand Cast $4,000 snare I just bought for our gig at the County Fair, hope the crowd and my bandmates realize the aura I am casting by owning and playing this one of a kind never before seen collectors valuable beyond imagination snare drum because without it our sound is just mediocre but this put us over the top in to the we have arrived as a band stratosphere"

 

[Steech]

I mean that just ENDS the conversation........mic' drop! I don't care about the drum and I will make all the posts I want to about it, free site, free country. What I care about is the gouge factor on ANY drum, whether it's this one or a "Ringo Spec" originally $150 Ludwig snare with hideous white interior that Ringo did not own or play going for $25,000, (not going of course, just listed as such) and the "we can rip the public off on this one because we can" factor. And sadly there will be people who buy this drum. Maybe it would be worth even more if someone did the "signed by Johnny Craviotto" thing with it and find some famous Tama artist to take a Sharpie to the inside. Also be sure and put the "only 200 made and this is number 121" thing in there also. Of course number 122 won't sound as good because it came later in production than 121 and by then the whole process of sand cast or whatever cast will have changed therefore changing the chemical structure and sound quaiity. Sorry, you should have bought number 1 in the series.

I found the North Korea reference particularly amusing. Well done, Marty!

 

[Marty Lowry]

Confirmed? Really, confirmed?. Is this a federal case, recipes being taken with them when the company closed? Centrifuges? Where does it end, is it the trigger for the Manhattan project? Do the new ones sound like the old ones? I must see where this leads, I am in too deep now. There are things about this drum I must find out that in the end maybe I did not want to know, it is scary. Maybe it has some magical other-worldly powers that when struck releases a Zen-like tone that soothes the soul and makes problems go away. I must now have one at all costs.

You have a Tama BB you wanted to sell and you are upset now.v

Or are you that seller that tried to drive up the price ended up NOT selling that snare in the end

 

[Whitten]

I mean that just ENDS the conversation........mic' drop! I don't care about the drum and I will make all the posts I want to about it, free site, free country.

Sure I just wonder why you're getting so motivated by something you have no interest in.
I have a Timeless Timber snare. I think it cost me $1800 originally. It sounds fantastic and I could afford it. No one was hurt. One of my other most used snares is a budget model Drouyn from Australia that cost me $400.
I just don't think about 'gauging'.
I would never buy a drum with rare exotic wood, gold leaf, mother of pedal, because it doesn't float my boat. I buy things that sound good.
I have no doubt one version (at least) of this Tama sounds good.

 

[Whitten]

"hey everyone, look at my new reissue Tama Bell Brass Sand Cast $4,000 snare I just bought for our gig at the County Fair, hope the crowd and my bandmates realize the aura I am casting by owning and playing this one of a kind

Yeah, your mistake is to buy something for other people's approval. Buy it because you want it, can afford it and it inspires you to play.