Tempus drums?

[Mendozart]

So, I got my refund and the day after the check cleared I ordered a Ludwig Classic kit from my favorite dealer here in town. He called Ludwig to find out the lead time - 8 weeks. Should be here by xmas. And no drama.

Hey Don,
I'm glad it worked out for you in the end, it's a shame that that isn't always the case for some.

Oh, and BTW, hope you have a Merry Christmas!

 

[Jerry Hendrix]

As a professional drummer, my first concern regarding the "spanners" of my trade is what they sound like. Granted, it's been a while since I owned a new kit, but I choose my tools based on the sound, the hardware, y'know - all the practical reasons.

That said, having trawled through this thread, I must admit if you are the kind of drummer for whom the look is just as, if not more important than the sound then I can understand why it is getting largely complimentary posts. Despite the subject matter being regularly perpetuated around the internet like a well worn re-run year after year, I do have sympathy, but if you want large, corporate, characterless, shiny consistency, you have lots to choose from.

Paul is a nice bloke. A really nice bloke. I've seen lots of his kits up close and personal and they appeared to be faultless and sounded wonderful. But, I didn't have to pay for them and I didn't disassemble them searching for irrelevant cosmetic flaws. If they sound good, so be it, but if you're after an objet d'art of perfection - buy accordingly.

Also lots of really nice corporate drums, too, to be fair. Corporations sometimes become big because they have learned how to do business and handle problems in a professional and timely manner. I think the reason the re-run keeps getting re-ran is because there are lots of customers who seem to keep having the same story to tell -new customer/old story. But that's nobody else's fault but Tempus' is it?

Sound is subjective so whatever one person thinks sounds good, another person may question. I think any good quality drum set can sound good. But even if we all agree that Tempus' sound is great, then the sound isn't a problem they need to work out, is it? So, why can't they concentrate on QC and customer service? It seems like it would be easier.

It's obvious that some of the drums are made better than others. Pictures prove it over and over and over again. It's probably fine when you get a good one, but it sure seems like it's a gamble. If you've got that kind of money to gamble, then it's a non-issue.

 

[Titus Pullo]

So, I got my refund and the day after the check cleared I ordered a Ludwig Classic kit from my favorite dealer here in town. He called Ludwig to find out the lead time - 8 weeks. Should be here by xmas. And no drama.

Hey Don,
I'm glad it worked out for you in the end, it's a shame that that isn't always the case for some.

Oh, and BTW, hope you have a Merry Christmas!

+1

Glad to hear it worked out for you. Your struggle was my last straw

Let's hope more people are now aware of the dread No Refund policy, no matter the reason behind desiring a refund.

 

[Ludwig Von Buzztoven]

Man, what's up with Canadian custom drum companies!?! Ayotte is a pain in the ass to deal with, too. Although, in fariness, I've never heard anyone complain about Ayotte's build or sound quality, other than their stand-based tom mounts slipping.

Buzz

 

[wayne]

Interesting evaluation.There are only a couple of "builders" in Canada with the most being shell assembly guys thanks to Keller for going public.I think the problem with any business doing deals across any border on the map are going to hit road blocks due to tarrifs,taxes,customs etc.It can add so much to a product it often isi,nt smart business,to do business.Unfortunately in Canada we dont have the population to support,in our case,a drum business.I think builders should attend as many drum shows as possible,bring as much product as you can carry,and offer the best deal you can while you have the public in front of you,and fortunately for Canadians the best shows are in the US.A saturated industry full of knuckl heads,liars and thieves makes it difficult for everyone and thats why you must do your homework when dealing with questionable operators.

 

[TDM]

mike-ellis,

Despite the subject matter being regularly perpetuated around the internet like a well worn re-run year after year, I do have sympathy, but if you want large, corporate, characterless, shiny consistency, you have lots to choose from.

The notion that high quality and consistency are negatives is lost on me. High quality and consistency are two of the key attributes I look for in my instruments and in the people I do business with.

Paul is a nice bloke. A really nice bloke.

This is irrelevant. We're discussing the business of the Tempus Drums company, which, by ethical and legal measures, leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[TDM]

Titus,

I wasn't downplaying your experience w/Tempus; you have my sincerest sympathies.

I think you misunderstood my post. Your previous reply didn't come across as downplaying my experience at all. Thanks for the clarification though and for your thoughts.

I know Tempus is capable of building quality product, and has and will continue to do so. But that's not the issue in this thread and others where there are problems.

Agreed. Manufacturing consistency, reliable contact points, and delivering what was ordered and paid for in the agreed time-frame... these are the big issues along with refining the product. Bleen's experience is a good example of the first set of issues. Why should a customer concern themselves with Tempus Drums' ability to re-sell bogus items before the company issues a refund? It behooves me to consider what would have happened if a buyer hadn't been found. I don't understand why, even when Tempus Drums seeks to make corrections, they do so in a way that loses goodwill. Does the company really think customers who win the "find a buyer" lottery will speak positively of their experiences?

No one here would attack the businessman in question unreasonably, and I don't think the moderators of this site would allow a free for all in any sense. That leaves one with the impression that it's a calculated non-response. A political-business calculus, if you will. The reader is free to make of that what they will. I find it a bit perplexing.

When you consider the business dealings we're discussing and how difficult they are to defend, the non-response isn't much of an enigma.

 

[TDM]

To Bigsecret: Based on the number of dissatisfied Tempus customers I've spoken with and the similarity of their experiences, I think there are a lot more unhappy customers than the company wishes to acknowledge.

To Bleen: It's good to hear you got your money back! You're the first customer I know of who has been successful... albeit, I realize your refund had high risk and PITA factors. I hope your new Ludwig kit arrives as expected. The new Ludwig company seems to be standing firmly behind its products and while I've heard of a few orders arriving not to spec, in each case Ludwig corrected the problems quickly and to the customer's satisfaction. I think you're in good hands with Ludwig. Hey... welcome to the Tempus survivors club! Like you, I also got a kit to replace my Tempus drums, although I still have my Tempus kit and haven't yet decided what I'm going to do with it.

To Jerry: Yes, there are lots of great drums from well-established, larger companies. I once was of the mindset that quality and personality only came from small, custom builders. This is nonsense. When looking at medium and high-end offerings from Tama, Yamaha, Gretsch, and other companies of this ilk, it's impossible to ignore the high build quality, and each company's instruments have unique personalities and sound. About Tempus Drums and the "same story/new customers" issue, you've nailed it exactly. Were Tempus a larger company with a higher profile, their current business approach would cause them lots of trouble. It's because the company is small and not well publicized that they fly under the radar. You're also right about the "gamble" issue. Some Tempus kits are well made, but the emphasis here is on the word "some". I've had enough experience with these drums to say that even the good kits are likely to require repairs. For example, the bass drum hoops are usually out of round and split bearing edges (due to air bubbles in the fiberglass/carbon fiber) are quite common. In the high-end market Tempus competes in, it's not worth taking the risk - not when you can go to Tama, Yamaha, and others and get a kit that is well made, well supported, and more likely to arrive in good shape than not.

To Wayne: About the Tempus Drums company defending their position, please see my reply to Titus just before this post.

 

[Patrick]

All right TDM,

Full disclosure, I am Canadian, right handed and mostly play Gretsch. I have no family connections to Tempus, and indeed the Tempus concern is about as far away from where I live as is the Premier factory in (uh) China. I have read several Tempus threads here and on other forums and there seems to be some aggrieved individuals for sure, but despite the fact that the number of aggrieved individuals reporting problems on the fora are seemingly a handful (as in five or less), the suggestion is that the aggrieved individual tally is much higher than the total number of correspondents.

With all respect, do you have numbers for the following?

"Based on the number of dissatisfied Tempus customers I've spoken..." (How many did you speak to and how many of those were dissatisfied.)

"You're the first customer I know of who has been successful..." (How many others do you know of who were not successful? What pool of customers have you surveyed, and how many got back to you?)


Cheers,
Patrick

 

[brhythm]

I suspect there may be more satisfied Tempus customers (including myself) than unsatisfied but I could be wrong. This thread, however, and others like it certainly points out how a reputation can be severely tarnished by even a few dissatisfied customers. Many of the comments here have been from folks who have only read about the problems others have had and have decided to avoid Tempus drums at all costs. I have always enjoyed my Tempus kit and my dealings with Paul. But that is not said do diminish the legitimately unhappy experiences others have had. It's too bad really.

I'm right there with you. I have an 8 X 14 FG shell I bought from Paul from his clearance list. The seam is fine, the finish is fine, and the sound is phenomenal. Here in ME, weather is always a factor. Summer heat, summer fog in the AM, winter cold traveling in the car. I'd love to have a Tempus kit, but if I do, it'll be purchased used from one I can see before I buy. I won't be custom ordering anything.

Of course, my two "custom" orders didn't go real well. I own a Bearing Edge (lovely drum, nightmare company) and bought a Joyous Lake snare that never arrived.

 

[mike-ellis]

mike-ellis,

Paul is a nice bloke. A really nice bloke.

This is irrelevant. We're discussing the business of the Tempus Drums company, which, by ethical and legal measures, leaves a lot to be desired.

Yes, but the associated sentence following that "cherry picked" quote is relevant to this discussion. I would say some of the selective facts utilised by some leave a great deal to be desired, ethically speaking.

 

[mike-ellis]

mike-ellis,

Despite the subject matter being regularly perpetuated around the internet like a well worn re-run year after year, I do have sympathy, but if you want large, corporate, characterless, shiny consistency, you have lots to choose from.

The notion that high quality and consistency are negatives is lost on me. High quality and consistency are two of the key attributes I look for in my instruments and in the people I do business with.

And your attempt to re-define what I said is lost on me. I made no mention of high quality and furthermore I made no mention that this or consistency is a negative.

 

[Bigsecret]

It seems that one safe way of acquiring a Tempus kit is either to buy used and inspect before purchase or buy (or order) from one of the stores that sell Tempus drums.

 

[vintagemore2000]

I have truly got to say from the sound bites I've heard of tempus drums so far has blown me away.

 

[TDM]

Patrick,

About the numbers. Your questions are reasonable and prudent. The numbers aren't exact because I've only been tracking on a cursory level as people contact me or as the subject comes up in conversations. Also, it's fair to say the numbers offer no statistical confidence because a valid sampling mechanism isn't in use. All of that said, I've spoken and/or emailed with about 40 unhappy Tempus customers and from this set I know of only one that got a refund. Not everyone wanted a refund, but I'd say about 10 to 12 people did. So, for argument’s sake, let's say the refund success ratio is 1/12 (or, in other words, an 8 percent chance of getting a refund). Not good odds if you ask me.

What is most striking is that each customer's dissatisfaction stems from similar issues and these issues are the type that I think generally displease customers as a whole. From this, I hypothesize there are likely more dissatisfied customers. In each case, orders were shipped considerably late; status reports were fabricated; defective, inconsistent, or incorrect goods arrived; and getting corrections from Tempus Drums was difficult and time consuming.

Here are examples of common experiences Tempus customers shared:

"Tempus Drums said they are too busy to complete my order this month and yet every day representatives of the company spend hours posting on Facebook and other social networking sites."

"I was told my order shipped n-weeks or n-months back, but the tracking information shows it shipped only yesterday."

"Before paying, Tempus Drums responded to phone calls and emails, but after paying they stopped responding. The company had my money, my order was late, and it was almost impossible to get a status report or any kind of customer service."

"I ordered finish x, hardware y, or heads z, but the company shipped substitutes and refused to send the products I paid for or to offer a refund."

"The company told me my drums would be ready in a few weeks. When the delivery date came, they revised the date to a month later. When the revised delivery date came, they revised the date again. And so on. I had no idea when my order would be ready as delivery dates given by Tempus are meaningless."

"The drums that arrived have quality issues that are unacceptable in this class of instrument."

"The drums that arrived aren't fully complete and are missing parts."

The similarity of the stories in uncanny, but there's something else that, for me, lends credibility: each customer's story is similar to my own experience with Tempus Drums. Ironically, it's somewhat comforting to know I wasn't singled out. This is business as usual at Tempus Drums.

 

[TDM]

To brhythm and Bigsecret: You both gave advice of the ilk "inspect the exact kit you're buying before paying or order through a retailer". For customers who want Tempus drums, this is exactly what I recommend. Make sure the retailer offers return and warranty service. If the retailer doesn't support Tempus orders this way, I suggest customers walk away.

To mike-ellis: Please accept my apologies if it appeared I misquoted you. The tone of your post regarding large, well-established drum companies seemed negative and noted consistency as one of your concerns. To me, consistency is a quality attribute and that's why I inferred quality metrics from your statement. Regarding your comment vis-a-vis the owner of the Tempus Drums company, I've chosen not discuss the owners, managers, and staff members of various drum companies as I believe this isn't relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[TDM]

vintagemore2000,

I have truly got to say from the sound bites I've heard of tempus drums so far has blown me away.

Agreed. Tempus drums sound fantastic. This aspect generally isn't an issue.

 

[Titus Pullo]

Totally coincidental, I'm sure, but a seller at CymbalHolics tossed this gem into a sale today:

Tempus Carbon Fiber snare. 6x13. Very dark black/purple glitter finish. Dunnet strainer. Triple flange rims. $275 (I'm selling this because Tempus built me a brand new drum after a 3.5 x 13 I bought from a store turned out to be a lemon (I love Paul at Tempus!).

(broken link removed)

Now, I'm not grinding my axe (and love aside), just pointing out two things. One, that if this lemon were not from a store, what are the odds that the seller would be in 'wait till the maker sells it limbo'. Or is it only drumsets that qualify for the No Refund policy? What about drumsets through stores?

And two, is that here again is yet another anomaly. I don't find it anomalous at all; I find it far too frequently. There was a Tempus shell on Ebay for the longest time that was stripped of parts. The seller bought it from another Ebayer and found it wouldn't hold tension without folding in on itself (thin CF shell). Some guys may be on a vengeful mission; I'm just reporting what I see because I cruise marts as a pastime.

/snark off

Edit: to/too. I hate that!

 

[Titus Pullo]

I want to stress something here. I've truly no axe to grind with Mr Mason. None. I will call them as I see them, though. And I'll do that with facts, links, etc. Not ad hominem attacks or veiled slander. Just what I see and can substantiate. I can't link to the Ebay sale I mentioned above, but if anyone else took note of that auction, please chime in; I don't want to appear mean spirited. If no one does, I'll try to remember to come back and edit that out since I can't find it using the Advanced Search via Ebay (it was too long ago, I'm guessing).

But some of these stories lately just p*** me off. We're talking about guys dropping major coinage for highly touted gear and being caught in a bind no one should ever find themselves in when in a retail exchange.

 

[Patrick]

Patrick,

About the numbers. Your questions are reasonable and prudent. The numbers aren't exact because I've only been tracking on a cursory level as people contact me or as the subject comes up in conversations. Also, it's fair to say the numbers offer no statistical confidence because a valid sampling mechanism isn't in use. All of that said, I've spoken and/or emailed with about 40 unhappy Tempus customers and from this set I know of only one that got a refund. Not everyone wanted a refund, but I'd say about 10 to 12 people did. So, for argument’s sake, let's say the refund success ratio is 1/12 (or, in other words, an 8 percent chance of getting a refund). Not good odds if you ask me.

What is most striking is that each customer's dissatisfaction stems from similar issues and these issues are the type that I think generally displease customers as a whole. From this, I hypothesize there are likely more dissatisfied customers. In each case, orders were shipped considerably late; status reports were fabricated; defective, inconsistent, or incorrect goods arrived; and getting corrections from Tempus Drums was difficult and time consuming.

Here are examples of common experiences Tempus customers shared:

"Tempus Drums said they are too busy to complete my order this month and yet every day representatives of the company spend hours posting on Facebook and other social networking sites."

"I was told my order shipped n-weeks or n-months back, but the tracking information shows it shipped only yesterday."

"Before paying, Tempus Drums responded to phone calls and emails, but after paying they stopped responding. The company had my money, my order was late, and it was almost impossible to get a status report or any kind of customer service."

"I ordered finish x, hardware y, or heads z, but the company shipped substitutes and refused to send the products I paid for or to offer a refund."

"The company told me my drums would be ready in a few weeks. When the delivery date came, they revised the date to a month later. When the revised delivery date came, they revised the date again. And so on. I had no idea when my order would be ready as delivery dates given by Tempus are meaningless."

"The drums that arrived have quality issues that are unacceptable in this class of instrument."

"The drums that arrived aren't fully complete and are missing parts."

The similarity of the stories in uncanny, but there's something else that, for me, lends credibility: each customer's story is similar to my own experience with Tempus Drums. Ironically, it's somewhat comforting to know I wasn't singled out. This is business as usual at Tempus Drums.

Thanks,

Patrick