Tempus drums?

[TDM]

Bigsecret,

I think Paul has a lot of other interests in his life that conflict with the business of Tempus Drums. That is unfortunate because it has lead to the experiences described by me and others in this thread. But when I read comments that he is a charlatan, a criminal, a turd etc. I can’t help but cringe. He is, in my opinion, none of these things. He impresses me as a kind and honest man who runs a small business sometimes very, very badly. It is my belief that my particular situation ended well because I chose to trust Paul/Tempus to make right on the mistakes. Others will, I'm sure, disagree.

Up to a certain point in my dealings with Paul Mason and the Tempus Drums company, I shared your faith and patience. Because of this, even though Paul failed to deliver not just once, but many, many times, I continued to grant latitude. When my drums showed up considerably late, piecemeal, not per the written spec agreed on, and with lots of flaws (no quality checking had been done - just slapped together and delivered), I was less enthusiastic and yet I still believed there was honest intent to deliver. Then, as another year went by and Mr. Mason continued to avoid providing suitable corrections, attempted to blame me for his manufacturing defects and poor quality control, refused to grant a refund, and tried to discredit me when I finally shared my story with the online drumming community, I was resolved to the fact I'd never receive an acceptable kit. The final turnaround came after reading reports from Sonorlite, Dean Matters, Bleen, Dan Radin, and a number of other customers who described problems with their Tempus drums and with the service they received from Paul Mason - problems pretty much identical to what I experienced. At that point, I realized my case isn't isolated and I'd been scammed by a disreputable drum company and by a disreputable business operator.

Part of what caused my initial dissatisfaction is that Paul gave a delivery date I now realize was impossible for him to meet. People make mistakes and I'm understanding of this. I've been in the position of having given an overly hopeful estimate too. It's how Paul followed up on this mistake (and others) that caused the issues to escalate. Paul failed to communicate, failed to provide adequate quality checking before delivering, failed to apologize, and failed to correct defects to an acceptable level. Realistically, Paul had two options for saving face: return the purchase price in full or build an entirely new kit free of charge. Paul did neither. (Side note: the finish defects in my Tempus drums, like Sonorlite's kit, are present in every drum. See the pictures I posted on page 2 for examples.)

It's ironic and revealing that when I reported the finish problems in my kit, Paul said I must have caused these because the same problems were unlikely to be in three, separate batches of drums. Let's debunk this statement: (1) piecemeal delivery wasn't part of our agreement, and (2) what Paul unwittingly and effectively underlined is he allowed not just a single batch, but rather three batches of defective finishing (each manufactured at different times) to end up in my hands. This further supports my belief that little quality checking (if any) is performed at Tempus Drums before product is shipped/delivered.

I gave Paul Mason many opportunities to view and to correct my Tempus kit, and granted innumerable waiting periods for Paul to deal with family commitments, demands of his day job, drum shows he had to attend, vacations he had planned, wait times for suppliers, and so forth. I understand schedules change for business reasons and sometimes for personal reasons. However, ultimately, I paid for a kit to be delivered per the attributes of a written, mutually agreed spec and per the time-frame quoted. Also, given the high-end nature of the drums, certain industry-standard levels of quality were expected (not super-boutique/super-fancy stuff, just things like the hardware being mounted correctly and screwed on straight, the finish being consistent and reasonably blemish-free, and everything operating as designed to operate). Paul failed on all counts. That's my issue with Paul Mason and Tempus Drums, and this is why, as I've already stated, I recommend customers avoid the Tempus Drums company and its products. There's really nothing more for me to say on this matter. If, after reading this thread, customers still want to play "Tempus Roulette" with their drum buying money, that's totally up to them. However, caveat emptor certainly applies. Let the buyer beware.

 

[homeby5]

In all my years, I've only ordered two instruments brand new. One was a Schecter Bass from a big chain. The other was a Lapsteel guitar from a one man show.
The bass came exactly as described, on time, no problems
The Lapsteel finally came. But first, I paid all my money up front. Then the guy did not respond to any emails or phone calls. Then his website was shut down I was real nervous. I even looked up his address on the internet, just in case. Finally, after much nagging and sweating, the guitar came and was OK. Weeks after promised. Being late didn't bother me. But the lack of communication did.
I probably will never buy another instrument from a one man show. My instrument only cost a few hundred dollars, instead of a few thousand!! I can't imagine the anxiety with dealing with someone with lack of communication after shelling out thousands of dollars. You would think there would be some kind of payment schedule depending on progress? Maybe he could ship out one drum at a time after payment for each piece? That way problems could be addressed without the fear of losing the whole marbles? I dunno....just thinking out loud. Surely, there has to be some way to not have to pay the total up front to some dude you've never met

 

[ARGuy]

Oh, for the love of Mike I'm sick to death of this topic, this man, and his business.

And yet, everytime it comes up up you respond.

Not every time (it's two words).

Geez, grow up.

Do you really want to go where you're driving this?

Sure, only I'm not the one driving ...

 

[TDM]

Titus Pullo and ARGuy,

I'm not a moderator at DFO and I've followed the dispute the two of you are presently having. Given that this thread is one of the only resources many (including myself) would have found extremely helpful before purchasing from Tempus Drums, I ask you both, politely and respectfully, to continue your dispute in private messaging. Whether in complete agreement with the thread's content or not, I believe we all feel this thread provides a valuable service to the drumming community. Thus, it's in everyone's interest that we work together to prevent the thread from being shut down and/or removed. I ask you both (and thank you both) for your consideration.

 

[Titus Pullo]

Titus Pullo and ARGuy,

I'm not a moderator at DFO and I've followed the dispute the two of you are presently having. Given that this thread is one of the only resources many (including myself) would have found extremely helpful before purchasing from Tempus Drums, I ask you both, politely and respectfully, to continue your dispute in private messaging. Whether in complete agreement with the thread's content or not, I believe we all feel this thread provides a valuable service to the drumming community. Thus, it's in everyone's interest that we work together to prevent the thread from being shut down and/or removed. I ask you both (and thank you both) for your consideration.

It's not really a dispute; ARGuy is evidently in search of some personal forum drama.

I PM'd him yesterday eve to end it, but he prefers to continue it here in the open.

Every forum has 'em; that's why there's an ignore feature.

 

[ARGuy]

Titus Pullo and ARGuy,

I'm not a moderator at DFO and I've followed the dispute the two of you are presently having. Given that this thread is one of the only resources many (including myself) would have found extremely helpful before purchasing from Tempus Drums, I ask you both, politely and respectfully, to continue your dispute in private messaging. Whether in complete agreement with the thread's content or not, I believe we all feel this thread provides a valuable service to the drumming community. Thus, it's in everyone's interest that we work together to prevent the thread from being shut down and/or removed. I ask you both (and thank you both) for your consideration.

I'm done with this topic both publicly and privately. There'll be no replies from me either way.

 

[Sonorholic]

I'm not pro or anti Paul Mason but I think it's important here to know the names of the people posting as it's a little too easy to hide behind cute handles.

I'll start; I'm Steve Balsavage. I have a Tempus kit and am pretty happy with it overall. Not everything is perfect on it but I've accepted that as part of the process when working with fiberglass in general and the various glitters. The single issue I had with these drums was when mounting a DW tom mount on an 18x22 bass drum. The drum simply couldn't take the weight and wasn't stable enough to support them; I questioned Paul about this and he said he hadn't heard of any problem with this flexing. There was a problem none the less and I was a little upset because I had already drilled the holes for the mount to try it out. I ended up putting a secondary piece of shell that Paul sent me over that part of the shell to both hide and strengthen it. To support a set of 2 toms I had to resort to finding an old Rogers Memriloc spanner to support the drum. It worked and I was back in business.

It's obvious that there are a few drummers who are unhappy with their experience with this company but it also gets blown somewhat out of proportion because of the repetition involved. I can understand your grievance with the more obvious seam flaws and certainly crooked hardware but as for the hoops, they are fiberglass and will not realize their shape unless they are tightened. It's the nature of the beast and mechanically simple to understand.

I don't support Paul Mason's unwillingness to make these issues right but by the same token I think the product is very good on average. To you guys who got the not so average products I am truly sorry. This would hold true no matter what make we were discussing...and Tempus is certainly not alone.

Again, I want to see names. You might say it doesn't matter but I beg to differ. It does matter because one person's name is repeatedly being mentioned. We all know who he is but who are you. I know of no court case where one party can remain anonymous. Just trying to be fair here.

Thanks Steve, I agree with a lot of what you've said.Your point about the bass drum hoops is spot on, but some folks will disagree as is their choice. I have no problem with this thread per se, but would like to see things stay civil. For the record, I'm a friend of Paul's, not on his 'payroll' and I know he's not running some sort of ponzi scheme or smoke and mirrors operation. I love my Tempus drums and always tell folks to check them out. If that means that they find this thread, fine with me. I too, hope folks will step up and say who they are. No mater how you feel about the issues being discussed.

 

[Titus Pullo]

Mr Mason knows who I am under this posting name, and I've personally made his acquaintance.

I'll say this much for saying who you are: if you've ever received a phone call from his favorite cohort or one of the goon-squad, then handing out personal information isn't wise if you prefer your blood pressure within safe levels.

 

[TDM]

Sonorholic,

Sonorholic to SteveB:
Your point about the bass drum hoops is spot on, but some folks will disagree as is their choice.

For perspective, I own synthetic hoops from another manufacturer and these hoops are round and flat, and fit well. As for my Tempus hoops (all four sets of them), no amount of bending causes them to fit properly. All my Tempus hoops are out of round, twisted, and not remotely flat. Perhaps I ended up with four particularly bad instances, however, four-out-of-four didn't give me great confidence that a fifth set would solve the problems. And, of course, there is the hassle of getting in touch with Tempus Drums and of waiting a deathly long, unknown period for new hoops to arrive. Not worth it. I solved the problem by purchasing Gibraltar hoops. Problem fixed immediately and first time out of the gate. +1 Gibraltar. -4 Tempus.

For the record, I'm a friend of Paul's, not on his 'payroll' and I know he's not running some sort of ponzi scheme or smoke and mirrors operation.

The issue isn't whether Paul is intentionally running a smoke and mirrors operation. Actually, I think Paul tries to run Tempus Drums to the best of his ability and with what he believes is a professional, ethical approach. However, the net effect of Paul's manufacturing problems and management style creates a smoke and mirrors outfit. One doesn't need to have malicious intent to cause bad effect. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a business manager with an MBA to realize that if you knowingly ship a substitute or completely wrong product (without the customer's approval), the customer will not be happy, especially if you've kept that customer waiting many months past the agreed delivery date. If you then refuse to accept the goods back and to refund the customer's money, in my book you're on the fine edge of fraud-like activity. Yes, I'm referring to the recent debacle with Bleen's kit. Bleen's situation really hit home for me because many of the circumstances echoed problems I experienced with my own Tempus order.

Paul is well aware of the problems with his manufacturing and customer service approach, and chooses to avoid rather than to solve these issues - logic that is totally lost on me and that lost my patronage. There's only so many times I'm willing to wait month after month for repairs only to have defective product (or an incorrect product) show up yet again. I'd rather go to a builder with enough skill to get things right the first time or, within reason, the second time and that's exactly what I did.

The tales of woe Paul discusses in his 2010 year-end Tempus Newsletter are well deserved, and even Paul admits this. Tempus customers have and do give him many opportunities to "make things right". It is inevitable that a business running as Tempus Drums currently does will suffer. I have yet to hear any Tempus customer, even extremely happy customers, not discuss manufacturing problems in their drums, problems in obtaining their drums, or problems in obtaining service from Tempus Drums. For that matter, can you yourself honestly say you've had no problems with your Tempus kits or with the Tempus Drums company? I ask you, respectfully, to consider that question carefully and with an open mind.

Edited to add: if I recall correctly, some of your Tempus bass drums arrived drilled for tom mounts, but without the mounts installed. (i.e. Your drums were delivered incomplete with large, raw holes at the top of each bass drum.) How long did this take to get resolved?

 

[SteveB]

Mr Mason knows who I am under this posting name, and I've personally made his acquaintance.

I'll say this much for saying who you are: if you've ever received a phone call from his favorite cohort or one of the goon-squad, then handing out personal information isn't wise if you prefer your blood pressure within safe levels.

Hi,

I know what you're saying but it's not so much that these particular drum builders can see who's talking about them..it's more about us recognizing each other during this discussion. It would easier for me if those hurt would be a little more open...and I don't mean by way of PM's. That's the same thing as what we have already.

I guess I'm old fashioned but I refuse to live hiding behind a tree..internet or not. If I say something I can usually back it up on some level, but if not then you know exactly who said it. So far I haven't had any major problems this way, or the way you are suggesting. Maybe I'll get a ration of hate mail now but I can handle it.

 

[wayne]

"The goon squad"....Sorry,that made me laugh.Im trying to visualize a 4ft 9"goon! and hairless to boot!

 

[agogobil]

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=1606

 

[9Lb Tongue]

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=1606

while that's funny, it's hardly the case here, IMHO.

 

[EDL]

The real issue is...
Tempus is the sole cause of all these problems and the sole cause of this thread even existing here..
This thread only lives because Tempus didnt take the time to take care of his drum business and chose to take thousands of $$ from well meaning and patient customers and and eventually ream a portion of them up the gazooha with faulty goods.
When you put your shingle out on the street as a business you need to take care of that business and actually care about your customers..even if not for quality and ethical reasons..then just for greed..to make sure your customers are satisfied and they keep buying so you can keep paying the rent..it's really all about taking care of people in the long run...including yourself..
This guy seems from what has been discussed here to have an ego problem with that..and maybe even a self destructive streak..lets hope he is not the true sociopath..who enjoys bilking people out of their money and loves the power he exerts in regards to this..and the pain it causes the people he has bilked...I have not ruled this out..

Like I said...I worked for the same exact kind of guy for a few years...and Tempus fits this mold to a tee..
A business owner.. that has a good company..but when you buy the final product..you buy the man too....and all his glaring faults..in this case..messed up orders..poorly made drums..and delivery problems..does it get worse than this..no it does not..

So for Tempus to step up to the plate..we all know what he needs to do..
1. Produce as professional a product as is humanly possible.
2. Ship on time.
3. Warrantee those products.
As of this point in time..none of these measures is given any priority..or in this case any semblence of actuality on a consistant pro level of any sort..
Only the aquisition of cash..seems to be the motivation here..and more and more of it..
After the cash from 1 customer is "procured.."..then it's on the the next sale for more "procurement..."and the next and the next..who cares what you stick in the box..or if it's late..because when it's out of the shop..it's out of mind..and...why not just let the customer do the quality control with their complaints when they receive it..(I'm too busy to do that..I have to log in to Facebook...or Drumsmith..)..and.. the longer it takes to get the kit right/correct to the customer..a year or so..the longer time I have to keep and play with their cash money..using it either for outstanding bills or my personal use..or even using the money for short term investments..so I can make Mo Money..

Tempus has a recent thread on the Drumsmith website letting everyone know that he is on the road to salvation and is turning around his company..he sites several reasons..and confesses to his manufacturing "sins.."
I suggest people ask the same exact questions as here in this thread in 3 mos and then 6 and 12 mos from now and see if the guy is not true-ing or not..and if the problems still remain..
I would bet $1000- to your $10- that the problems will remain exactly the same..as this is just another slick stalling tactic to make Mo Money for another year or 2..from "suckers..."..who will take any crap he ships out the door..no matter how defective..and defend him for that..

But not to be too cynical..there is a perhaps..maybe 1% chance that Tempus will take some pride in his self and his company and get his act together ASAP..
But I've seen it all before..and this is what I predict..
Tempus, if he continues on the same road will be out of business in a couple of years...if not sooner..
With the economy the way it is..and the internet..and with threads like this..he has lost thousands just by the bad rep on this thread..
He cannot afford to have this kind of bad press forever..
He needs to change his ways...or fold...it's that simple..
But it's hard to teach an old dog...new tricks..and in this case..I would think fairly impossible..

 

[homeby5]

Yrs ago I got hired by a company in Miami as a software engineer. We marketed, produced and sold exhaust gas monitors that would measure pollution in stacks form plants and create EPA reports.
Anyway, I would show up last on the customer site to finish the tweaking of software and testing. Everytime, and I mean everytime, the customers hated me before I stepped into the control room. Wait, there is a point.....
Come to find out, the owner of my company could sell holy water to the pope. He would promise all kinds of lies to keep the cash flow coming in. Of course He was always late and had all his customers pissed off.
Come to find out, he would ship out empty enclosures, so he could reach a goal in the contract and get a payment. Finally things caught up with him after ripping off millions of dollars. The feds shut him down and he still owed me $13,500 for work (never saw a dime). He owed another man in the office $125,000 who also got nothing.
Paul may not be at this level ....yet, but after reading, he does seem to collect money with promises. Than the promises aren't fulfilled and the customers are strung along over and over, to not have to give a refund. Just from the stories, I would be real leary. I would have to pay, after delivery and inspection of goods. If he doesn't have the overhead to cover that request, than he must not have his finances in good condition.
Again, I don't know the man. But sooooo many stories all can't be wrong. One question, has anyone ever gotten money back without having to wait for the errant kit to sell or something stupid like that. I would like to know

 

[Jerry Hendrix]

Who cares what his end of year newsletter says he's going to do in the future? That's not true. The only way he's ever going to absolve his "sins" is to take care of the outstanding complaints and refund people's money first. The AFTER that, he can start improving for the future.

 

[TDM]

homeby5,

One question, has anyone ever gotten money back without having to wait for the errant kit to sell or something stupid like that. I would like to know

To the best of my knowledge, the answer to your question is "no". Normally, there isn't an offer to broker the "errant kit" either. To quote Paul Mason (who, unknown to me at the time, has said the following to customers before me and likely to others after), "there has never been a refund at Tempus Drums and there never will be".

 

[homeby5]

homeby5,

One question, has anyone ever gotten money back without having to wait for the errant kit to sell or something stupid like that. I would like to know

To the best of my knowledge, the answer to your question is "no". Normally, there isn't an offer to broker the "errant kit" either. To quote Paul Mason (who, unknown to me at the time, has said the following to customers before me and likely to others after), "there has never been a refund at Tempus Drums and there never will be".

Well, IF that is true, then he's a criminal. Bottom line. Taking money for a specific product and not delivering the product is stealing and fraud.

 

[Titus Pullo]

The newsletters are essay-length sob-story/propaganda to keep a fan base he depends on. The last one juxtaposed tales of increasing sales, the difficulty of doing business, bad press, family and friends, tears of philanthropy (but no mention of $), snow-capped mountains and snowshoes with family, and rosy prose of the joys of life, and lastly, another plug at the expense of Jason Bonham. Not much about those sales (hard figures). Well, not much about drums at all, really. But it never fails that we're advised how difficult it all was but worth it in the end. Yes, see mountaintop retreat to bolster that part.

However, in his zeal to inform fans of the increasing sales, he takes for granted that anyone has the brain cells necessary to say, "If your sales are so good that you can take mountaintop family vacations and support a paragraph worth of organizations and good causes, then why continue a no-refund policy; why the increase in complaints, and why the endless tales of buggering customers?"

Add to this how long the gear sits on Ebay and in shops and you have the perfect counter to another essay.

It's interesting to watch and comment on, I'll give it that much.

 

[TDM]

SteveB,

Addressing your question regarding who we each are, Mr. Mason knows who I am and he has my contact details. He is free to contact me anytime by phone, email, or postal mail. My handle changes because I like to keep separate pairs of email account/handle for each, major drum site I deal with. Despite this, I've done nothing on DFO (or in this thread) to hide who I am. Paul can easily discern which of his unhappy Tempus customers I am given the information I shared about my order and the pictures I posted. As to my specific contact details and real name, I choose not to put this on the Internet for reasons of privacy. Those who need to know my contact details have this information.