Tempus drums?

[BenWolf]

Interesting thread for sure. I knew very little of Tempus before, but feel pretty educated now. Funny thing is, I actually want a kit like longfade. I'll definitely avoid getting one custom made but the descriptions of the tone and those Jerome Deupree cuts have me interested.

Any other comparable sounding drums out there from different manufacturers?

 

[TDM]

longfade,

longfade:
All I was wondering originally was, do Tempus Drums sound good? I was really close to snagging a bop kit locally for 495.00 but have never played one so wanted some feedback.

Stixnergard2:
Was that the bop kit Don Bennett had for sale with the bad seams?

longfade:
Yeah, that's the one. Kind of a pink/salmon sparkle color? I passed because I just didn't like the color, and I prefer a tom mount on the BD. This one was virgin, I think. It was a tough call though. I really think I would have loved playing it.

I looked at that kit several times and considered grabbing it myself. It did not have a tom mount on the bass drum (which, like you, was a negative for me) and the seams on at least one (and possibly two) of the drums appeared to be separating. The seam issue was the deciding factor for me because given the way these drums are made, there should be no seams. It looked as though the actual fiberglass layers of the shells were delaminating (which is something I could have repaired with some resin and catalyst), but I really didn't want to own yet another Tempus kit with problems. Cool little kit though and I did like the colour a lot.

You asked about the sound. In a single word, phenomenal. The fundamental concepts behind these drums are spot on and sonically these are simply great sounding, extremely versatile kits. It's the manufacturing problems and poor customer service that significantly detract.

Despite the negative feedback I've given, if you find a kit you can inspect in person before buying (with sizes that work for you and where the kit, as a whole, is reasonably without manufacturing issues), I recommend purchasing. Sonically, I'd be very surprised if you aren't blown away. That's how I became a Tempus customer. I was firmly in the "no non-wood drums for me" camp and then I played a Tempus kit one day. Wow. The sound was so open and warm, and the dynamic range (from soft, to medium, to loud) was incredibly wide and sensitive. Frankly, there are many top-end wood kits I'd played that didn't come close to the musicality of this Tempus kit. So... that's why I decided to buy a set. Find a kit in good condition, inspect carefully before you buy, purchase from a reputable dealer (not from the Tempus Drums company itself), and these drums are well worth owning.

 

[TDM]

daWolf,

Interesting thread for sure. I knew very little of Tempus before, but feel pretty educated now. Funny thing is, I actually want a kit like longfade. I'll definitely avoid getting one custom made but the descriptions of the tone and those Jerome Dupree cuts have me interested.

Any other comparable sounding drums out there from different manufacturers?

To the best of my knowledge, while there are other companies making drums from fiberglass and carbon fiber (Ming Drum is an example), nobody is doing the "extremely thin shell", "no re-enforcement ring" concept that Tempus is. Tempus seems to have this market exclusively to itself at present. Regarding Jerome Dupree's YouTube clips, yes, Jerome's playing is so utterly musical and in the pocket, and his Tempus kit sounds great. I've heard Jerome's tuning methods with a number of kits now and he really knows how to get the drums to speak for his touch and approach. Very musical indeed.

 

[longfade]

longfade,

longfade:
All I was wondering originally was, do Tempus Drums sound good? I was really close to snagging a bop kit locally for 495.00 but have never played one so wanted some feedback.

Stixnergard2:
Was that the bop kit Don Bennett had for sale with the bad seams?

longfade:
Yeah, that's the one. Kind of a pink/salmon sparkle color? I passed because I just didn't like the color, and I prefer a tom mount on the BD. This one was virgin, I think. It was a tough call though. I really think I would have loved playing it.

I looked at that kit several times and considered grabbing it myself. It did not have a tom mount on the bass drum (which, like you, was a negative for me) and the seams on at least one (and possibly two) of the drums appeared to be separating. The seam issue was the deciding factor for me because given the way these drums are made, there should be no seams. It looked as though the actual fiberglass layers of the shells were delaminating (which is something I could have repaired with some resin and catalyst), but I really didn't want to own yet another Tempus kit with problems. Cool little kit though and I did like the colour a lot.

You asked about the sound. In a single word, phenomenal. The fundamental concepts behind these drums are spot on and sonically these are simply great sounding, extremely versatile kits. It's the manufacturing problems and poor customer service that significantly detract.

Despite the negative feedback I've given, if you find a kit you can inspect in person before buying (with sizes that work for you and where the kit, as a whole, is reasonably without manufacturing issues), I recommend purchasing. Sonically, I'd be very surprised if you aren't blown away. That's how I became a Tempus customer. I was firmly in the "no non-wood drums for me" camp and then I played a Tempus kit one day. Wow. The sound was so open and warm, and the dynamic range (from soft, to medium, to loud) was incredibly wide and sensitive. Frankly, there are many top-end wood kits I'd played that didn't come close to the musicality of this Tempus kit. So... that's why I decided to buy a set. Find a kit in good condition, inspect carefully before you buy, purchase from a reputable dealer (not from the Tempus Drums company itself), and these drums are well worth owning.

Man, great post and thanks for the info. I wondered about the separation and thought it was odd since they're not supposed to be wrapped drums. There's a quite-hideous Tempus that Donn's selling on CL right now for the same price - 495.00 - in 8" x 8", 9" x 10", 9" x 12", 14" x 14", 18" x 20" with a matching 6.5" x 14" snare. They're sooooo ugly though. What do you think the feasibility of wrapping a tempus kit would be?

I'm saving for a vistalite but that price is pretty damned tempting.

 

[mesazoo]

longfade,

longfade:
All I was wondering originally was, do Tempus Drums sound good? I was really close to snagging a bop kit locally for 495.00 but have never played one so wanted some feedback.

Stixnergard2:
Was that the bop kit Don Bennett had for sale with the bad seams?

longfade:
Yeah, that's the one. Kind of a pink/salmon sparkle color? I passed because I just didn't like the color, and I prefer a tom mount on the BD. This one was virgin, I think. It was a tough call though. I really think I would have loved playing it.

I looked at that kit several times and considered grabbing it myself. It did not have a tom mount on the bass drum (which, like you, was a negative for me) and the seams on at least one (and possibly two) of the drums appeared to be separating. The seam issue was the deciding factor for me because given the way these drums are made, there should be no seams. It looked as though the actual fiberglass layers of the shells were delaminating (which is something I could have repaired with some resin and catalyst), but I really didn't want to own yet another Tempus kit with problems. Cool little kit though and I did like the colour a lot.

You asked about the sound. In a single word, phenomenal. The fundamental concepts behind these drums are spot on and sonically these are simply great sounding, extremely versatile kits. It's the manufacturing problems and poor customer service that significantly detract.

Despite the negative feedback I've given, if you find a kit you can inspect in person before buying (with sizes that work for you and where the kit, as a whole, is reasonably without manufacturing issues), I recommend purchasing. Sonically, I'd be very surprised if you aren't blown away. That's how I became a Tempus customer. I was firmly in the "no non-wood drums for me" camp and then I played a Tempus kit one day. Wow. The sound was so open and warm, and the dynamic range (from soft, to medium, to loud) was incredibly wide and sensitive. Frankly, there are many top-end wood kits I'd played that didn't come close to the musicality of this Tempus kit. So... that's why I decided to buy a set. Find a kit in good condition, inspect carefully before you buy, purchase from a reputable dealer (not from the Tempus Drums company itself), and these drums are well worth owning.

Man, great post and thanks for the info. I wondered about the separation and thought it was odd since they're not supposed to be wrapped drums. There's a quite-hideous Tempus that Donn's selling on CL right now for the same price - 495.00 - in 8" x 8", 9" x 10", 9" x 12", 14" x 14", 18" x 20" with a matching 6.5" x 14" snare. They're sooooo ugly though. What do you think the feasibility of wrapping a tempus kit would be?

I'm saving for a vistalite but that price is pretty damned tempting.

There is good chance that kit is wrapped. He also used to sell wrapper shells, shells with finish blems.

 

[franke]

Heh! Topical example. Franke, over in the "General" forum, posted a thread about the Tempus kit he just bought. You can find the thread here:

Picked up a Tempus Kit
http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/41193-picked-up-a-tempus-kit/

These are nice looking drums and the finish seems quite good. However, looking more closely, I noticed the following:

1.) The bass drum has gaskets under the lugs, but none of the other drums do.

2.) The lugs on the 12 inch rack tom are crooked.

These are small issues that won't effect the sound of the drums, but the fact the lugs aren't lined up properly and aren't installed consistently... well, honestly, that's the kind of work I consider amateur... it's what I might have done while my friends cheer "great first drum building attempt TDM!" I fully understand some readers will say "those are non-issues" or "if you look with a mindset to find problems, you *will* find problems". Okay. Fair enough. Now, consider the following. The drum companies at the top of the industry... they care about details like this and they get this stuff right, demonstrating immaculate attention in everything they produce. Personally, this is the kind of company I want to deal with when buying drums and this is especially the case when I'm buying in the boutique class/price range.

I never noticed until you brought it up that the bass drum had gaskets and the toms didn't. I also didn't notice that some of the lugs on the 8x12 are slightly askew.

I really don't get the bass drum thing since the serial numbers on the drums are sequential. Perhaps it was ordered that way? Perhaps he ran out of tom lug size gaskets and sent the kit out that way? I really don't know.

As to the crooked lugs, they don't seem to effect the tuning, and given their odd shape such irregularities are not as evidently plain - at least not to my eyes - as perhaps would be had the lugs came to a point like Gretsch, Slingerland, Pearl, or a straight like Ludwig.

There is also splaying on the tension rods, however this is about the same degree of splay as a current production Ludwig 400/402 - and I never hear anyone complaining about them.

When I was selling drums I routinely received stuff from Gretsch USA with installed hardware that was slightly askew. I've also received more than my share of kits from Ludwig USA that had similar issues. The difference here perhaps is one call to Gretsch or Ludwig and they'd take the drum back. Still, there were instances where when I pointed out the problem to the customer when they came in to pickup the kit and they opted to take the drum anyway.

It seemed that certain customers purchasing certain brands were willing to accept a certain level of sloppiness whereas the DW/Yamaha/Pearl/Sonor customer was expecting perfection (and they usually got it). I'm bringing this up not to justify what sounds like irresponsible behavior on the part of a manufacturer but to say that the relationship that some have with a particular brand/builder is such that they are willing to accept certain issues more freely. Taken a step further with a brand like Tempus, which is essentially one person who has grown his customer base through internet social networks and drum forums, and it's easy to see how perhaps the original owner of the kit I now have may have been willing to look the other away at the kit's apparent cosmetic faults.

So, since I bought this Tempus kit used, and relatively cheap, these issues don't rattle me as much they might have had I paid full freight and waited several months and received a tom with crooked lugs and gaskets only on the bass drum (assuming that I didn't order it that way to begin with).

I do like the sound of the kit. It's not as good as the Sonor Delite I recently picked up but it is different in a good way. I may keep it for the time being. If and when I do decide to sell it I hope that I can at least recover all or most of my cost, assuming that the brand's quality reputation hasn't been bashed to pieces by then.

 

[Drumaniac]

Lighten up Francis, it was a joke !

No Problem Cindy

Don't Mess With TEXAS !

 

[Bigsecret]

Regarding the sound of Tempus drums - a year or so ago I was selling my DW kit. The buyer was a very nice and very competent young drummer. He saw I had several kits and asked if I had heard of Tempus. So, I pulled out the 10" and 12" from my Tempus kit and put them up next the 10" and 12" DW toms. Well, it almost blew my sale. I could see the look on the buyers face and I really thought he was going to back away from buying the DW kit. Since he was buying the kit for recording he finally justified buying the DWs by saying he knew DWs were good drums for recording. But, it was apparent he preferred the sound of the Tempus kit. Like others here have said, I don't ever see myself selling them.

 

[Noonan G]

daWolf,

Interesting thread for sure. I knew very little of Tempus before, but feel pretty educated now. Funny thing is, I actually want a kit like longfade. I'll definitely avoid getting one custom made but the descriptions of the tone and those Jerome Dupree cuts have me interested.

Any other comparable sounding drums out there from different manufacturers?

To the best of my knowledge, while there are other companies making drums from fiberglass and carbon fiber (Ming Drum is an example), nobody is doing the "extremely thin shell", "no re-enforcement ring" concept that Tempus is. Tempus seems to have this market exclusively to itself at present. Regarding Jerome Dupree's YouTube clips, yes, Jerome's playing is so utterly musical and in the pocket, and his Tempus kit sounds great. I've heard Jerome's tuning methods with a number of kits now and he really knows how to get the drums to speak for his touch and approach. Very musical indeed.

Here ya go..Here`s a tune from the extra wonderful Imelda May,at Abbey Road, with Steve Rushton playing drums..Noonan GF jnr (Glass fibre ) snare drum in Percy Pig Pink.. ..Pretty `thin` shell and no need for re enforcements..

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[JackieTreehorn]

I'll agree that both Gretsch and Ludwig in the past where so bad that I wondered how they stayed in business. Hell, i think Gretsch actually wanted to go out of business but where not allowed to by having a rabid fan base. They where hands down the worst drum company of the 80's-90's.

Premier owns that title now.

 

[BenWolf]

daWolf,

Interesting thread for sure. I knew very little of Tempus before, but feel pretty educated now. Funny thing is, I actually want a kit like longfade. I'll definitely avoid getting one custom made but the descriptions of the tone and those Jerome Dupree cuts have me interested.

Any other comparable sounding drums out there from different manufacturers?

To the best of my knowledge, while there are other companies making drums from fiberglass and carbon fiber (Ming Drum is an example), nobody is doing the "extremely thin shell", "no re-enforcement ring" concept that Tempus is. Tempus seems to have this market exclusively to itself at present. Regarding Jerome Dupree's YouTube clips, yes, Jerome's playing is so utterly musical and in the pocket, and his Tempus kit sounds great. I've heard Jerome's tuning methods with a number of kits now and he really knows how to get the drums to speak for his touch and approach. Very musical indeed.

Well said thanks for the response TDM.

 

[Titus Pullo]

Like others here have said, I don't ever see myself selling them.

I'd say that's an accurate prediction given how well they move on Ebay

 

[RIDDIM]

I use a kit that I put together from Paul Mason's shells, I ordered fiberglass shells for snare & toms but ordered a carbon fiber bass drum shell because from my listening to sound files over the Internet I felt that the dried deeper pitch tone of carbon fiber was better suited to my liking. I tend to tune very loose, when tunning higher pitch it seams shells resonate less & you get more response for articulate playing.
I also hear less overtones in fiberglass shells over wood shells.


Here's a video of I believe Nick Costa playing a fiberglass (I think) kit, snare drum looks wood, hope this helps.


Drum on,
Z

Jerome Deupree on carbon fiber kit with metal snare.

The yellow snare and the blue bass drum are both CF. The rest are fiberglass.

 

[RIDDIM]

My "road warrior" kit that I built for myself has Tempus FG shells. I can't say enough about the sound, sonic consistency and durability of Tempus drums. Unlike previous FG ventures by other companies, Tempus shells are neither brash-sound nor overly-loud. They are quite warm-sounding and project lows extremely well. In fact, you can probably get away with the next size SMALLER drums than you would normally play. They excel at lower tunings, but you can get a nice jazz "bark" with single-ply coated heads at higher tunings. :

This matches my experiences as well.

 

[TDM]

longfade,

Man, great post and thanks for the info.

You're most welcome.

There's a quite-hideous Tempus that Donn's selling on CL right now for the same price - 495.00 (snip) They're sooooo ugly though. What do you think the feasibility of wrapping a tempus kit would be?

If the drums are already wrapped (as mesazoo thinks they are), on fiberglass drums, removing the wrap and replacing it is beyond my knowledge. The process may be similar to wood drums, but, before going ahead, I'd want to check with Tempus Drums or with someone who knows the process with a Tempus kit. You could end up destroying the shells by using the wrong process and chemicals (if any chemicals are needed).

If the drums are non-wrapped, adding wrap will thicken the shells a tad and might change the response. For me, part of the appeal of Tempus drums is the thin shells so I wouldn't want to add layers. You may feel differently.

Regarding the specific kit you're considering, the link to the ad was posted on anther site and I'm pretty sure I've seen this kit. Yep. That's one heck of a fugly finish. (Hey, everyone has their preferences and, in my case, that particular finish is a long way away from my tastes.) The sizes don't exactly scream "must buy" either. 10x9 is quite deep for a 10 and the 20x18 bass drum is similarly on the deep side of things. For my taste, I prefer shallower depths so... despite the low price of this kit, the longer depths and finish would be a no go for me.

Given that Tempus kits generally have low resale value (the custom nature of them, non-wood shells, relatively unknown brand name, and lack of high-profile endorsements all collude to decrease their value in the used marketplace), the best option may be waiting until a kit comes up that is a colour you can live with.

I'm saving for a vistalite but that price is pretty damned tempting.

The newer Vistalites are reputed to be warmer sounding than the originals. I've played the originals and they were "okay" with the right heads. In contrast, Tempus drums have a considerably broader and warmer range of sounds and they are very musical with a wide number of different heads. Granted, I've not played the new Vistalites, but if I had the Jones to buy both, I know which I'd buy first, and it wouldn't be the Vistalites. (Oops. Don't mean to spoil your fun or your dream. )

 

[TDM]

Catching up on replies...

franke:

So, since I bought this Tempus kit used, and relatively cheap, these issues don't rattle me as much they might have had I paid full freight and waited several months and received a tom with crooked lugs and gaskets only on the bass drum (assuming that I didn't order it that way to begin with).

Bingo. You've got it exactly. If I'd bought my Tempus kit at a reduced price in exchange for the defects, and had contracted for this up front, I'd be fine with that. But, that's not what I contracted, bought, and paid for. I paid for brand new, high-end drums. The drums arrived significantly late and with a number of defects. The cracks in the finish, on their own, would be enough that I'd have exchanged the kit for another or requested a full refund. Any of the reputable drum companies you mentioned (Drum Workshop, Ludwig, Gretsch, Pearl, Sonor, Yamaha) would have replaced a kit with these problems. Not so with Tempus Drums. I asked for a replacement kit or a full refund, and both requests were denied. Tempus made a few repairs, but the majority of the problems remain. Thus, while the drums sound great, I won't buy direct from Tempus ever again.


Bigsecret:

So, I pulled out the 10" and 12" from my Tempus kit and put them up next the 10" and 12" DW toms. Well, it almost blew my sale. I could see the look on the buyers face and I really thought he was going to back away from buying the DW kit. Since he was buying the kit for recording he finally justified buying the DWs by saying he knew DWs were good drums for recording. But, it was apparent he preferred the sound of the Tempus kit.

I did the same test before buying my Tempus kit (comparing 10 and 12 inch Tempus toms to similar sized toms from other manufacturers' high-end kits, including several DW Collector Series kits. Sonically, the Tempus drums were the hands down winner every time. It's a shame that other aspects of my Tempus kit don't measure up to its sound. Some might say the cosmetic stuff doesn't matter, but I paid for the cosmetics (so this does matter to me) and there are other problems that are not cosmetic. Here's an example: my toms mount on the bass drums (the kit was ordered this way). The thin shells of the bass drums do not support the weight of the toms. As long as I don't hit the toms too hard, the bass drums flex in a way that is livable yet bothersome. Lay in a bit harder or play with mallets or hands, and the shells flex so much that it seems like something is going to break. Thus, this aspect of the instrument effects me emotionally while I'm playing and restricts my playing. This is one of the problems I brought to Tempus Drums' attention and they refused to do anything about it. It's almost a certainty that DW would not ignore this kind of issue in one of their kits. To me, Tempus Drums are a bitter-sweet affair. With refinement, better quality control, and a change of company ownership, the drums could be absolutely killer, but I understand why, at present, these drums remain a niche, underground product.


Noonan G:

Here ya go... Here's a tune from the extra wonderful Imelda May, at Abbey Road, with Steve Rushton playing drums... Noonan GF jnr (Glass fibre) snare drum in Percy Pig Pink.. ... Pretty 'thin' shell and no need for re enforcements...

Thanks for posting that! Big, fat, swampy, pseudo-rockabilly groove and Imelda May is wonderful. I've not listened to her much before. Now I'm going to spend some time looking her up on YouTube. Thanks.

 

[Stixnergard2]

Here is some more fuel for the fire quoted from another forum. The only reason I'm posting this is beacuse when Sonorlite got screwed on his shells I emailed Paul Mason trying to help resolve the issues. The guy read me the riot act only to confirm my feelings towards him and his product. He is very good at blaming others for his problems:

I purchased a Tempus drum kit directly from Paul Mason at Tempus Drums. Having read so many positive reviews, I looked forward to owning a Tempus kit built for me. Unfortunately, the drums I received have many defects and realistically, now that I've had time to assess the entirety of the problems, the entire kit needs to be refinished or replaced. Some examples of the problems: (1) all drums have cracks in their finish, (2) widely varying finish glossiness - some areas are sparkly and reflective while other areas are murky/dull and non reflective, (3) chips out of some of the bearing edges, (4) all drums have crooked lugs with some lugs twisted left, other lugs twisted right, and some lugs centered properly, (5) improperly measured/mounted hardware - bass drum tom mount places toms sticking out over the back of the bass drum; bass drum legs, even when fully retracted, won't allow the drum to sit flat on the floor, (6) all bass drum hoops are out of round.

No reputable drum company would consider these kinds of flaws acceptable. Tempus did correct some of the problems by remaking various drums and repairing others. Unfortunately, each of these interactions was very frustrating because I was treated as a problematic customer for identifying the quality problems. Some of the promised repairs were never delivered (for example, the out of round hoops weren't replaced) and significant problems still remain in the kit.

My Tempus drums have fiberglass shells. While I've worked around most of the hardware issues, the problem I'm concerned about presently is the finish cracks. All the drums have multiple cracks in their finish. The cracks are about 1 to 3 inches long, although some are longer. Also, around the lugs of some of the drums, the finish has wider, deeper cracks. I didn't notice the finish flaws initially because the drums are champagne sparkle/glitter in colour; the glitter does an excellent job of hiding the cracks. These are brand new drums that are only a few months old so I'm guessing the cracks are a manufacturing defect.

Should I be concerned about the finish cracks or can I just ignore these? Will these spread and/or allow moisture to damage the shell? I'm thinking there might be a clear agent that can be applied to fiberglass so as to fill the cracks. Does anyone know someone who could do this kind of repair work? Contacting Tempus isn't an option. I tried this several times and received only a negative response. Given my experience with the Tempus Drums company, I don't recommend Tempus drums to anyone anymore, but I'd still like to make my drums look good and last as long as possible. Thus, I'd appreciate advice about repairing the drums.

 

[TDM]

Stixnergard2,

'Tis a small world. You must have been on Eric Sooy's drum building site. That's my post you quoted. Early on, when considering what to do about the finish flaws in my Tempus drums (and getting nowhere negotiating with Paul Mason), I considered re-finishing the kit myself. This is why I created that thread. The folks on Eric's site (and Eric himself) were very helpful, but I soon realized that re-doing the gelcoat was a significant undertaking. Also, after giving the matter more thought, I decided to leave my legal options open and thus left the drums exactly as Paul delivered them to me. Mason tried to blame me for the cracks and star-like fissures in the finish of my kit, saying I must have caused these. This is not true and Mason knows it. After Paul delivered the drums to me, I stored them in cases, in a heated, second bedroom. The drums were not damaged or abused in any way. The fact Mason went through this same situation with Sonorlite (two to three years previously) and, back then, acknowledged these finishing defects are due to problems in his manufacturing, confirms he already knew of the issue. Just why he pretended not to know and simultaneously tried to blame me... well, I'll let readers form their own conclusions.

 

[wayne]

WHY..Is there no mention of legal action against this bandit?These horror stories should be enough to get him [them] to close the doors until a reputable firm takes over..What are you waiting for?

 

[EDL]

WHY..Is there no mention of legal action against this bandit?These horror stories should be enough to get him [them] to close the doors until a reputable firm takes over..What are you waiting for?

A lot of his customers are out of the country...so what are they going to do...call the Canadian Mounties...?
He has a sure fire game going..he can ship the most defective stuff out of the country to the unwary..
and it's way too expensive for the customer to actually take legal action..or to return the product back all the way to Canada..costing the customer possibly hundreds more ..but not at all possible either as he does not take returns or refunds either in whole or partial....the only alternative left for the sad and abused customer is.. to complain on websites such as this one..but even this revealing thread might actually arouse some more interest in his products because there are always a few people out there that will be perked up and interested in Tempus because of all the bad press..thinking it simply can not be possible..that he would ship out such defective crap...and there are always some that will be willing to take a chance on him even with a thread such as this one...this is what he counts on..and this is why he does not answer anyone on this site..better to keep the mystery going..why make yourself a target..? And stick with your Canadian buddies..like Ron Dunnett..who will cover your ass on their website...and let you post anything you want to get more "sucker" business..while permanently banning anyone that says anything against you...