Which grip technique is your natural go to?

[Fat Drummer]

American Matched for me 95% of the time, though my hands auto switch to Traditional the moment I pick up a pair of brushes.

 

[Seb77]

I wanted to say this earlier

for me, thumb on top is not really french grip. Maybe I'm wrong, or coming at it from a classical background. But I always thought French grip involved the fingers and less of the hand.

Or maybe that actually what you mean ?

In the end it's just a word.
Around the kit, you can hardly use just fingers, you need to close them to get the stick from one drum to the next, if this makes sense. People use wrist strokes (outward turn), all fingers, push/pull etc. "Thumb up position" might be clearer.

 

[bobsyouruncle]

In the end it's just a word.
Around the kit, you can hardly use just fingers, you need to close them to get the stick from one drum to the next, if this makes sense. People use wrist strokes (outward turn), all fingers, push/pull etc. "Thumb up position" might be clearer.

Exactly.

 

[brady]

I just gotta rant about traditional grip...

Now I have played drums all my life (started on drum kit about 1965)... reading/concert/rudimental snare since I was 18, marching band in college, still practice reading/concert style, still play in the local concert band, yadda yadda... I played trad for a while 50 years ago, soon gave it up as totally pointless.

As you all know, it makes no sense ergonomically to play trad on a modern drumset, and THE ONLY REASON IT EVER EXISTED was because of military marching guys 150 years ago who played with the primitive sling thing (see photo):
Trad grip was developed cuz it puts both elbows at the same horizontal plane, and kinda makes sense in a funky old-fashioned way if you are marching around with the old sling style attachment.

View attachment 743801

BUT to use it nowadays is just pointless and can lead to elbow, shoulder, hand problems.

When I see the next kind of thing (next photo: modern marchers using trad grip when the drum is flat out in front of the player and the left shoulder/elbow/wrist are unnaturally dropped ) it DRIVES ME NUTS! (but hey, it LOOKS cool, right?)

View attachment 743803


So flame away, my bros and sisses... I know what you all are gonna say: that you play jazz ghost notes better with trad, brushes swoosh better with trad, whatever.

BUT the only REAL reason you play trad is cuz you learned that way!

But as far as the whole German-French-American thing goes, I am pretty much an IRISH grip kinda guy (do what feels good!)

Not gonna flame ya... You made some good points. I play traditional grip and don't really focus on what I do with my right hand, basically switching between German or American when I need power or for accents, French for speed and doubles.

The only inaccuracy I see in your post is the reason to play trad grip is because we initially learned that way. I officially started drumming as an adult, in the chapel band when I was in the Air Force.. I was sort of self-taught for about a year, with the guidance of a few other guys that played a little drums, obviously defaultong to matched grip. I took formal lessons within a year or so and was of course taught matched grip there as well. Fast forward a few years, and I decided I wanted to learn traditional grip. Once I got it down with the help of another teacher, I discovered my hands were much more even. (In matched, my left hand is much stronger than my right.)

I also played a lot of jazz/brushes at the time. It made that a lot easier. My main gig for the past several years is a Chicago blues band. For me, shuffles are a lot easier to play in traditional grip. I still switch in between but probably 90% of my playing is traditional grip, just because it's actually easier and more comfortable for me at this point.

 

[cornelius]

I wanted to say this earlier

for me, thumb on top is not really french grip. Maybe I'm wrong, or coming at it from a classical background. But I always thought French grip involved the fingers and less of the hand.

Or maybe that actually what you mean ?

I was taught the thumb-up grip is can be used all-wrist, or with fingers. I mostly use it with a lot of wrist and use a Moeller whip - maybe it's more of a drum set thing...

 

[Drumming dog]

Matched grip, french style (timpani). Easy to incorporate fingers on d s and press rolls and fast 16ths on hh.

 

[Flamateur Hour]

I tend to implement a few things depending on the situation. I find that the more I externally rotate my arms my grip naturally shifts more towards a thumb-up grip so I'll do that. If I'm on the floor tom I'll do more of a radius/ulna rotation movement (kind of like the other variation of french grip) if it's on the floor tom since that feels nice and then use fingers for faster motion ride things. As the arm internally rotates I shift more towards german (so like, hi hats or my crash) and then tend to be in more of an american position on the snare. Not really revolutionary to have the arms open up as they go outwards but it just feels intuitive to me. That said, I have a TON of work to do to have it fully optimized. My finger playing and wrist rotation both need work. And my wrist controlled stroke. But it feels good nonetheless and I play every day and play various gig and rehearsal volumes regularly.

 

[Gretsch&PaisteGuy]

I' always played trad and will occasionally switch to matched when I'm whacking the back beat on snare with the butt end of the stick. My matched grip playing can get clumsy if I'm not careful.

I've taught my right hand to vary freely between all three grips: German, American or French, depending on what It's doing on the kit: playing on the hi hat, it's American grip; when playing extended 2-handed fills or grooves on snare, or one-handed around the toms, it's German. Two-handed around the toma it transitions from American on rack toms to French on floor toms. I ride and crash on cymbals with French. This way I can let what feels natural and comfortable dictate. I'll only make adjustments if something feels awkward.

It isn't a strict rule though; it's whatever feels natural and sounds good. I don't force anything. I'm also training both hands to vary the fulcrum when playing at higher speeds to help my hands rest. I'm trying to reduce tension in my hands when possible to avoid injury.

This is what makes sense to me on the kit, but I'm not saying it's the "right" or "best" way for anyone else.

 

[Markkuliini]

Many are commenting that they change the grip to French/thumb up when they are playing the ride cymbal. From physical stand point that is very natural and recommended, since in that position turning the hand thumb up eases the tension on the shoulder area.

I've had some students who have been trying to keep the German grip on the ride, and they have also been complaining how their hand/shoulder gets tired pretty fast. I have just taken their sticks away for a second, and asked them to keep the German grip while the arm position changes from being over the snare to pointing towards the ride. I have asked them how does it feel in the muscles on the upper arm and shoulder, when the arm turns outward. 100% have answered "tensioned". All of them have changed to French grip when playing to the ride, I don't even need to tell them to do that. The demonstration without sticks is usually enough, to become aware of how unnatural German grip becomes, the more the arm turns outward.

Of course or bodies vary a bit, but I haven't yet found a drummer who would not feel the shoulder getting tensioned when doing the test.

 

[scheme]

I believe we shouldn’t forget that these techniques evolved from classical applications, such as timpani or concert snare drums, as many have mentioned. In contrast, your posture is quite static compared to a drumset where you have to reach multiple drums and cymbals placed all around you.

 

[DSDrummer]

Many are commenting that they change the grip to French/thumb up when they are playing the ride cymbal. From physical stand point that is very natural and recommended, since in that position turning the hand thumb up eases the tension on the shoulder area.

I've had some students who have been trying to keep the German grip on the ride, and they have also been complaining how their hand/shoulder gets tired pretty fast. I have just taken their sticks away for a second, and asked them to keep the German grip while the arm position changes from being over the snare to pointing towards the ride. I have asked them how does it feel in the muscles on the upper arm and shoulder, when the arm turns outward. 100% have answered "tensioned". All of them have changed to French grip when playing to the ride, I don't even need to tell them to do that. The demonstration without sticks is usually enough, to become aware of how unnatural German grip becomes, the more the arm turns outward.

Of course or bodies vary a bit, but I haven't yet found a drummer who would not feel the shoulder getting tensioned when doing the test.

And here I thought I was a freak because I automatically switch from American to French on the ride. I guess lots of drummers do it.
I play matched. I've spent some time with orchestral percussion -- mallets instruments and timpani, etc. Why should I change to a radically different grip only for snare?

 

[DSDrummer]

I used to play in the percussion section of a symphonic band. The timpanist played the French timpani method. That's how I learned what it really is, a fabulous way to play crescendo and decrescendo, to play very fast, and to emphasize the tone of the drum and minimize the attack. The hands don't move, only the fingers. I've tried it myself. It's a manual coordination challenge that would take a long time to really do it right.

Sonny Emory does it well on drumset.

Wow, that was a great solo, and I generally don't like drum solos. I saw Sonny with Phil Collins back in the early 90's.
Who were the other musicians? I went to the Youtube page and found nothing in the comments.

 

[scheme]

And here I thought I was a freak because I automatically switch from American to French on the ride. I guess lots of drummers do it.
I play matched. I've spent some time with orchestral percussion -- mallets instruments and timpani, etc. Why should I change to a radically different grip only for snare?

I was forced to switch to a traditional grip while playing marching snare back when I was 13. This was because I was playing one of those tilted snares. I hated it. Other than that, I don’t see any reason to change something as long as you feel comfortable with it.

 

[Seb77]

Many are commenting that they change the grip to French/thumb up when they are playing the ride cymbal. From physical stand point that is very natural and recommended, since in that position turning the hand thumb up eases the tension on the shoulder area.

Exception: playing bell/bow patterns using Moeller.
Also interesting to see footage of Shelly Manne playing more or less with thumb sideways on the ride.
Both won't work well on a far-right cymbal, and work best with a cymbal further in above the bass drum.

 

[jmpd_utoronto]

What you have to figure out is what direction you want your wrist to rotate.
If you want power, the strike is rotating to your center. If you want control rotation is to the outside.
This is related to the hand position of german vs french grip. The german grip is control and french is power.
American grip is between and uses the wrist only (no forarm rotation). Good for drum & bugle core style play.

With traditional grip it's side saddle, where the left rotates to center and right rotates outside.
I play side saddle, but with match grip. With both stick position to the right and swinging to the left, it's easy to do the cross over on hats and tom work.

Your comments about power in French versus German grip are not correct, or at least not in the way that people usually think about it.

French grip has the thumb more on top, and primarily uses the fingers, so it’s more useful for quickness and speed. There is also typically more space in the hand between the palm and the stick in this grip. Many timpanists use this grip because it allows you to play faster strokes and have more nuance to your playing, which is important for timpani because they are always trying to make a different colours with their sound.

German grip, on the other hand, keeps the back of the hand more parallel to the floor and the thumbs on the side, and uses more of the wrist to get the stroke motion, and therefore is the more powerful stroke, though sometimes not as fast and with slightly less nuance control. On something like timpani, it also typically produces a darker, fuller sound.

American grip is a sort of hybrid of both French and German, and I would argue is probably what a lot of drummers used most commonly now.

 

[bobsyouruncle]

Your comments about power in French versus German grip are not correct, or at least not in the way that people usually think about it.

French grip has the thumb more on top, and primarily uses the fingers, so it’s more useful for quickness and speed. There is also typically more space in the hand between the palm and the stick in this grip. Many timpanists use this grip because it allows you to play faster strokes and have more nuance to your playing, which is important for timpani because they are always trying to make a different colours with their sound.

German grip, on the other hand, keeps the back of the hand more parallel to the floor and the thumbs on the side, and uses more of the wrist to get the stroke motion, and therefore is the more powerful stroke, though sometimes not as fast and with slightly less nuance control. On something like timpani, it also typically produces a darker, fuller sound.

American grip is a sort of hybrid of both French and German, and I would argue is probably what a lot of drummers used most commonly now.

Thank you. Well explained.

Something that's also interesting, at least to me. Is I see a lot of tight fulcrums between the thumb and the first finger, even on pro drummers, very well-known drummers.

I'm sure it gives clarity to the sound, a point if you will. But that's not necessarily something I strive for or was really taught to me.

It certainly works for some great players though

 

[Matched Gripper]

Wow, that was a great solo, and I generally don't like drum solos. I saw Sonny with Phil Collins back in the early 90's.
Who were the other musicians? I went to the Youtube page and found nothing in the comments.

Lee Ritenauer on guitar. Not sure of the others.

 

[Markkuliini]

Exception: playing bell/bow patterns using Moeller.
Also interesting to see footage of Shelly Manne playing more or less with thumb sideways on the ride.
Both won't work well on a far-right cymbal, and work best with a cymbal further in above the bass drum.

The tension on the shoulder eases up when you straighten the arm to reach the bell, which makes it possible to use the German grip. I do it too.

But when riding on the bow, at least for me the German grip feels tight and unhealthy even though my ride is quite centered, partly on top of the bass drum and I play mostly with only 1 rack tom.

Yeah, Shelly is pretty odd case.

 

[toddbishop]

I have no idea what French, German, or American grip means.

French (vertical wrist) and German (flat wrist) are the names of timpani grips, the people started using for drum grips generally. American (half way in between) is something they made up because a lot of drum set players hold the sticks that way.

As you all know, it makes no sense ergonomically to play trad on a modern drumset

It depends on how you set it up. Aside from looking cool, reasons to use is it might be, somebody likes the way the sticks move with it, or they want to hold the sticks the way the drummers they most listen to hold them, which are perfectly fine reasons for it.