Zildjian K Dark medium lathed down

[michaelg]

Had a cymbalsmith lathe down this 22" K dark ride from a heavy 2884g down to a medium 2523g weight.

Its a fairly complex trashy sounding cymbal and still loud (to my ears at least).
Any thoughts most welcome, for me its a little more versatile now.

 

[FLratrodder]

Very nice! It really came alive.

 

[bobsyouruncle]

Interesting... for a few reasons...

I have one of these, I don;t have a weight, but I'm fairly confident it's heavier than yours, hovering around 2900-3000. I rarely use it, it's my big outdoor festival cymbal, but usually I travel for those and use backline. I'm thought about selling it fairly often, but it fills a void in my arsenal so I keep it for now. It's actually an excellent cymbal in it's own right. Like a big old Intermediate stamp K. I also have a renaissance at around 2560-2600 that I love, which is about the weight of yours lathed down.

Let me say I'm not often a fan of cymbal alterations, in that they've personally never been satisfying for me. No doubt they can sound great, and people are happy. But after having Mike Skiba do one, and heather styne the other, it's unlikely I do that again.

What you lose off the Dark Medium you gain somewhere else. Yours sounds excellent, I'm glad you like it. Can I ask who did the work ?

 

[HalldorL]

I actually liked it a lot more before the mod. More alive, shimmery, nicer stick, great bell and a beautiful crash. But that’s just my taste.
I have one that’s 2956gr. Love that thing and I find it very versatile.

 

[michaelg]

Interesting... for a few reasons...

I have one of these, I don;t have a weight, but I'm fairly confident it's heavier than yours, hovering around 2900-3000. I rarely use it, it's my big outdoor festival cymbal, but usually I travel for those and use backline. I'm thought about selling it fairly often, but it fills a void in my arsenal so I keep it for now. It's actually an excellent cymbal in it's own right. Like a big old Intermediate stamp K. I also have a renaissance at around 2560-2600 that I love, which is about the weight of yours lathed down.

Let me say I'm not often a fan of cymbal alterations, in that they've personally never been satisfying for me. No doubt they can sound great, and people are happy. But after having Mike Skiba do one, and heather styne the other, it's unlikely I do that again.

What you lose off the Dark Medium you gain somewhere else. Yours sounds excellent, I'm glad you like it. Can I ask who did the work ?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Dave Collingwood did the work.

 

[michaelg]

I actually liked it a lot more before the mod. More alive, shimmery, nicer stick, great bell and a beautiful crash. But that’s just my taste.
I have one that’s 2956gr. Love that thing and I find it very versatile.

Thanks for your honesty,
Interesting that you find yours as being very versatile as before the mod on mine I would only ever use it on outdoor gigs in big spaces and found it not very versatile at all, I do prefer lighter cymbals in general though.
Did yours sound similar to mine at 2884g ?

 

[bobsyouruncle]

Thanks for your honesty,
Interesting that you find yours as being very versatile as before the mod on mine I would only ever use it on outdoor gigs in big spaces and found it not very versatile at all, I do prefer lighter cymbals in general though.
Did yours sound similar to mine at 2884g ?

If I can butt in.

If he's like me, we already have something that we use for lighter situations and don't need to get something lathed down. We're happy it worked for you, but I don't think it's something we would do ourselves.

Also.... and this is something I've recently talked about to a friend of mine on this forum. I'm in New Orleans, and I hear drummers all the time, every week. And almost all of them for me play cymbals that are too light for me. I can't hear the stick. So either want drier or heavier. It's been awhile coming around to this because they sound really pingy from the drum seat. But I just think they translate better in the house. That is, if you're looking for definition. If you're not looking for definition in the house and you really just want spread and more wash, then yeah it stands to reason you're gonna choose something thinner.

Also, another thing while we're talking about it. A lot of it is the players relationship with the Cymbal. I play an old heavy K 2240g and a old 2400g 60's 602 20". But I get compliments all the time on the Cymbal sound. And other guys have sat in and like "how can you play these things? ". But it's my relationship with the cymbals, it's a sound and feel I like. And it's the sound my hands and ears connect with.

I think that goes missing in a lot of people's searches

 

[HalldorL]

Thanks for your honesty,
Interesting that you find yours as being very versatile as before the mod on mine I would only ever use it on outdoor gigs in big spaces and found it not very versatile at all, I do prefer lighter cymbals in general though.
Did yours sound similar to mine at 2884g ?

I don´t mean this a criticism, I hope you don´t take this the wrong way. Just my opinion. I find the cymbal sounds nice after the mod just totally different. Darker and much more dry.

Mine sounds not far away from yours before the mod and yes I do find it versatile. Maybe not the cymbal I would take to a small cafe with a piano trio (not that I play those type of gigs) but I like cymbals that go from 0mph to 100mph in a second, depending on how you play it. I love having access to the whole spectrum. As @bobsyouruncle said above, I also hear a lot of players using cymbals that just drown out, especially the stick. They are too light, too dark. I´ve had my share of cymbals that sound fabulous when I play on my own but at the gig they just "vanish" almost. I find my Dark Medium is heard, even if played lightly. It really shines in a musical situation. Love that thing. Jon Christensen is a drummer who I have always admired for his unique touch and he played a ride cymbal that was well north of 3000g if not 3500g.

 

[michaelg]

I don´t mean this a criticism, I hope you don´t take this the wrong way. Just my opinion. I find the cymbal sounds nice after the mod just totally different. Darker and much more dry.

Mine sounds not far away from yours before the mod and yes I do find it versatile. Maybe not the cymbal I would take to a small cafe with a piano trio (not that I play those type of gigs) but I like cymbals that go from 0mph to 100mph in a second, depending on how you play it. I love having access to the whole spectrum. As @bobsyouruncle said above, I also hear a lot of players using cymbals that just drown out, especially the stick. They are too light, too dark. I´ve had my share of cymbals that sound fabulous when I play on my own but at the gig they just "vanish" almost. I find my Dark Medium is heard, even if played lightly. It really shines in a musical situation. Love that thing. Jon Christensen is a drummer who I have always admired for his unique touch and he played a ride cymbal that was well north of 3000g if not 3500g.

Not all all, I value different opinions from everyone but especially from great experienced players like yourself, thanks a million for sharing.

I've heard a 22" K dark medium from the audience perspective and it sounded really great out front.
But from the bandstand it was kind of overwhelming (to my ears) even in an electric band context, partially to my lack of volume control (a work in progress) and just the sheer volume and the amount of mid range frequencies it ate up.
I guess there is a balance somewhere of sounding balanced on stage and still being able to project into the audience acoustically.
This probably also leans into micing techniques , the room, the player etc, I usually do throw up an overhead for a lot of what i do.

 

[bobsyouruncle]

Not all all, I value different opinions from everyone but especially from great experienced players like yourself, thanks a million for sharing.

I've heard a 22" K dark medium from the audience perspective and it sounded really great out front.
But from the bandstand it was kind of overwhelming (to my ears) even in an electric band context, partially to my lack of volume control (a work in progress) and just the sheer volume and the amount of mid range frequencies it ate up.
I guess there is a balance somewhere of sounding balanced on stage and still being able to project into the audience acoustically.
This probably also leans into micing techniques , the room, the player etc, I usually do throw up an overhead for a lot of what i do.

This all sounds about right. Was/is the dark medium your main ride ? And for what kind of gigs ?

 

[bobsyouruncle]

I don´t mean this a criticism, I hope you don´t take this the wrong way. Just my opinion. I find the cymbal sounds nice after the mod just totally different. Darker and much more dry.

Mine sounds not far away from yours before the mod and yes I do find it versatile. Maybe not the cymbal I would take to a small cafe with a piano trio (not that I play those type of gigs) but I like cymbals that go from 0mph to 100mph in a second, depending on how you play it. I love having access to the whole spectrum. As @bobsyouruncle said above, I also hear a lot of players using cymbals that just drown out, especially the stick. They are too light, too dark. I´ve had my share of cymbals that sound fabulous when I play on my own but at the gig they just "vanish" almost. I find my Dark Medium is heard, even if played lightly. It really shines in a musical situation. Love that thing. Jon Christensen is a drummer who I have always admired for his unique touch and he played a ride cymbal that was well north of 3000g if not 3500g.

I was going to use the Jon Christensen reference. And Al Foster too. Like I said in an earlier post, I think you have to be attracted to that kind of sound. It's almost upfront, even when you play a dynamically and lightly.

I have another theory about this too, which the three of us can get into. Which is the illusion of being cooler or hipper by using jazz cymbals . Even if they're not appropriate. Something about guys using K Cons as crashes and riding them for the wash even in a hard rock band.

Also... and this is for me. Because of the higher pitch in the 20, I can get away with a thinner cymbal. But the more I start moving up in diameter the heavier it has to get in weight for me to get the sound I'm looking for.

 

[HalldorL]

This all sounds about right. Was/is the dark medium your main ride ? And for what kind of gigs ?

I usually use a few rides. My main gig these days can get quite loud AND very soft so I need a ride that can handle a broad range. My go-to ride is a 21" Royal at 2485g that Paul Francis made for me. Gorgeous cymbal but at a larger venue, I need a louder ride, more presence. I haven´t had the Dark Medium for long and at first I thought it was too loud and too much. Then at a gig I realized just how great it was. I find it not that hard to control depending on the grip (almost the only thing I practice these days).

 

[HalldorL]

I was going to use the Jon Christensen reference. And Al Foster too. Like I said in an earlier post, I think you have to be attracted to that kind of sound. It's almost upfront, even when you play a dynamically and lightly.

I have another theory about this too, which the three of us can get into. Which is the illusion of being cooler or hipper by using jazz cymbals . Even if they're not appropriate. Something about guys using K Cons as crashes and riding them for the wash even in a hard rock band.

Also... and this is for me. Because of the higher pitch in the 20, I can get away with a thinner cymbal. But the more I start moving up in diameter the heavier it has to get in weight for me to get the sound I'm looking for.

You took the words right out of my mouth

I had been using a 21" A Sweet Ride on the gig I mentioned but the Dark Medium is just so much nicer and I don´t have to lay that much into it to get what I need. It also compliments both my A series crashes and K series crashes beautifully. It´s just a really musical cymbal.

I totally understand that some may find it too much but depending on how you play it, it really does so many things really well.

 

[michaelg]

This all sounds about right. Was/is the dark medium your main ride ? And for what kind of gigs ?

No not my main ride, I would only ever use it for outdoor gigs in large spaces which are few and far between.

For 70% of gigs i use a Paiste ME 20" or 20" Trad medium, weddings, pub gigs, venues, pop, singer/songwriter, blues, rock, middle of the road stuff,

For jazzy settings using a Lauritsen 20", Funch 22" and both a 20 & 22 sabian AA raw rides which are both light. The Lauritsen is proving itself to very versatile and getting used whenever I can use it as it just sounds so good and is inspiring to play.

 

[HalldorL]

Oops, I replied thinking you were quoting me @bobsyouruncle. Pardon my lack of attention.

 

[Jazzhead]

Had a cymbalsmith lathe down this 22" K dark ride from a heavy 2884g down to a medium 2523g weight.

Its a fairly complex trashy sounding cymbal and still loud (to my ears at least).
Any thoughts most welcome, for me its a little more versatile now.

It is subjective but I much prefer the qualities of the original one you had, yours was actually not on the heavier side for this cymbal, mine is at 3015g and sounds exactly like your original one, love that cymbal. I also find the original more versatile.

 

[Ptrick]

If someone is happy themselves with the mod, and it suits their playing style and sound, nobody else’s opinion matters.

(I personally like the mod version best

 

[GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!]

I used to have this cymbal and it sounded a lot like yours before the mod. My experience was that it worked wonderfully live, but often felt like too much from the driver's seat and isolated in practice. Mine was also not very crashable.

I like the sound of the modified cymbal in that it definitely has more character and complexity, but it is definitely drier and I'd wager will project less in a live scenario. In its pre-modified version I always thought of this as the K Con for rock players, or a more versatile K Con. Ultimately if you're happy with the sound and feel then it's a win, but it's important to have the right tool for the job and the modified cymbal may be a bit more limited in application.

Either way, enjoy it and hope you get a lot of use out of it.

 

[michaelg]

Should also mention, I hoped the mod would make the cymbal more versatile for Jazz and quieter types of music and I feel the weight loss has brought me closer to that.

 

[michaelg]

I used to have this cymbal and it sounded a lot like yours before the mod. My experience was that it worked wonderfully live, but often felt like too much from the driver's seat and isolated in practice. Mine was also not very crashable.

I like the sound of the modified cymbal in that it definitely has more character and complexity, but it is definitely drier and I'd wager will project less in a live scenario. In its pre-modified version I always thought of this as the K Con for rock players, or a more versatile K Con. Ultimately if you're happy with the sound and feel then it's a win, but it's important to have the right tool for the job and the modified cymbal may be a bit more limited in application.

Either way, enjoy it and hope you get a lot of use out of it.

Thanks for that.
I don't have any experience with K Cons so it would be interesting to compare my modded cymbal to one.
Do you think its similar in sound now to a similar weighted K con ?