bobby...
DFO Star
almost 7400 views on this thread , and more to come i'm sure....... i know i would not buy a drumset from this guy
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Tempus drums?
- Thread starter longfade
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JackieTreehorn
Very well Known Member
If he has a "no refunds no matter what" policy shouldn't he have it front and center not only on his website but on an order form/contract? Jackson has the same policy on their custom guitars. I think it's a crazy policy to accept but if the buyer knows about it before ordering, "C'est la vie."
I don't get why this guy doesn't even seem to make the effort to make things right. It's like a big middle finger to those people who are in fact paying his bills. I have heard Tempus drums sound great, they probably do. I love the lug design as it is the closest on the market to Rogers B&B, but I have no desire to pay someones rent and get a s**t product then a s**t attitude to boot.
I don't get why this guy doesn't even seem to make the effort to make things right. It's like a big middle finger to those people who are in fact paying his bills. I have heard Tempus drums sound great, they probably do. I love the lug design as it is the closest on the market to Rogers B&B, but I have no desire to pay someones rent and get a s**t product then a s**t attitude to boot.
tamadrm
DFO Master
Before I buy anything expensive I want to know up front what the manufactures as well as the sellers return/guarentee policy is.These are high end drums so I'm assuming 2k or more for a basic drum set.I feel for those of you who have been burned by this humanoid but , did any of you get any clarification on returns up front?
Just asking.Did this guy state in writing that he backed up his product 100%?Consider it an expensive albeit unfortunate lesson in "human" behavior.Hey how about a DFO road trip to Canada?
Just asking.Did this guy state in writing that he backed up his product 100%?Consider it an expensive albeit unfortunate lesson in "human" behavior.Hey how about a DFO road trip to Canada?
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zutty
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The last time I bought a new drum set Gretsch was in Brooklyn. I ordered it from Danny the manager of the drum dept. at Manny's. It was custom ordered, a white lacquer finish which wasn't in the catalog. With no tom mount,
on the bass, and no mount on the tom as well. I was asked to put $100 down and to pay the rest when it came in and I approved it. It cost me a total of $350 for the 3 drums and THAT is the way to do business. After reading this, and seeing how he conducts himself on DS with his cronies, I wouldn't EVER go near a Tempus drum, no matter how good it sounded. Mason sounds like a wack job to me.
on the bass, and no mount on the tom as well. I was asked to put $100 down and to pay the rest when it came in and I approved it. It cost me a total of $350 for the 3 drums and THAT is the way to do business. After reading this, and seeing how he conducts himself on DS with his cronies, I wouldn't EVER go near a Tempus drum, no matter how good it sounded. Mason sounds like a wack job to me.
W
wayne
Guest
Tempus and dunit are industry misfits and its obvious to thousands that these two are joined at the hip.Its a good thing really because you,ll always be able to find them together,scheming up some kind of con.My only issue is with the hard working players that have been ripped off,and i can only hope this ends up in a court of law where justice will prevail.Only a coward would hide like this,and i hope they are truly ashamed of themselves.
9Lb Tongue
Oily Beau Hunk
How could anyone expect quality drums from a man in his condition?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3334976/Fattest-man-Paul-Mason-sues-the-NHS-for-allegedly-letting-him-grow.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3334976/Fattest-man-Paul-Mason-sues-the-NHS-for-allegedly-letting-him-grow.html
coastie
DFO Veteran
How could anyone expect quality drums from a man in his condition?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3334976/Fattest-man-Paul-Mason-sues-the-NHS-for-allegedly-letting-him-grow.html
We did not need that! LOL.
zutty
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Yeah, it was a different world back in the day. Going into Manny's..the old one down near 6th Ave..and seeing Hendrix walking down the block...or going round the corner to Henry Adler's on 46th and listening to Henry whine about "the government".
As my time winds down I find myself waxing nostalgic more and more...But it was a nicer world.
Stixnergard2
DFO Master
Funny, maybe that's what happens after years of inhaling fiberglass fumes in addition to brain damage.How could anyone expect quality drums from a man in his condition?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3334976/Fattest-man-Paul-Mason-sues-the-NHS-for-allegedly-letting-him-grow.html
We did not need that! LOL.
Ludwig Von Buzztoven
DFO Veteran
In Dunnett's defense, he makes the best drum spurs ever, IMO.
Buzz
Buzz
Gotdrums
3rd most viewed drummer online
Well, I started with page 1 and made it here in just under 2 hours. Wow, I'm beat. I need to take a break now. I can't take anymore right now.
TDM
Yapping Internet Mutt
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Replies to various posts...
You've got the gist of it. The lack of requirements tracking is also a significant problem. Tempus Drums doesn't provide a requirements checklist for the customer to determine if their order is correct and neither does it seem Tempus has an internal system with which to determine if they've met the requirements of an order. Keep in mind this isn't like ordering a stock shell pack. Every Tempus purchase is a custom order with special requirements. Thus, defective manufacturing aside (which is no small issue in itself), without a proper requirements tracking and sign-off system, something is likely to get missed or to be outright incorrect.
Paul does make an effort to correct defects and mistakes, but everything is left for the customer to prove and to manage. Also, the focus is on providing the minimum - in other words, what is the least that can be done to make a problem go away. The irony is no more care is taken with replacement work than with the original. Thus, as I experienced multiple times, replacement work arrives with the same defects as the original.
The refund and warranty policies aren't disclosed at the outset. It is only when a refund or warranty issue comes up that Paul reveals his policies, which are: no returns/refunds and no warranty. Paul may or may not offer to make repairs, but this is completely at his discretion. There is no formal warranty. Regarding your notion this is an "expensive and unfortunate lesson", yes it has been, on both counts. More than a few, ex Tempus Drums customers have learned this lesson. It would be interesting to collect stats on customers with actual claims versus those who are simply commenting based on reports they've heard.
Before buying, I didn't know of the almost cult-like support for Tempus Drums and Paul Mason on Drumsmith. Consequently, the many positive reviews over there helped persuade me to purchase. I'm now a lot more cautious about checking for bias in reviews, checking for multiple review sources, and checking policies (such as the return policy and warranty). Frankly, Paul Mason has put me off small builders and small companies. I'm going to stick with well-established companies and purchase through well-established dealers for the foreseeable future.
I've done business with Ronn Dunnett on three occasions and each time he provided great service and workmanship. That said, I've run into two problems. First, before purchasing my Tempus kit, I asked Ronn for feedback on Tempus Drums and Paul Mason. Ronn didn't warn me about the manufacturing and customer service issues. Second, in a thread on Drumsmith started by another customer who reported problems with their Tempus order, I noted Ronn hadn't warned me and wasn't warning others about the problems. Ronn responded by attacking my character and threatening to ban me from Drumsmith. Back when I asked for a reference, perhaps Ronn wasn't fully aware of the issues, but he is certainly aware of the issues now and yet he still refers customers to Tempus Drums.
You've got the gist of it. The lack of requirements tracking is also a significant problem. Tempus Drums doesn't provide a requirements checklist for the customer to determine if their order is correct and neither does it seem Tempus has an internal system with which to determine if they've met the requirements of an order. Keep in mind this isn't like ordering a stock shell pack. Every Tempus purchase is a custom order with special requirements. Thus, defective manufacturing aside (which is no small issue in itself), without a proper requirements tracking and sign-off system, something is likely to get missed or to be outright incorrect.
Paul does make an effort to correct defects and mistakes, but everything is left for the customer to prove and to manage. Also, the focus is on providing the minimum - in other words, what is the least that can be done to make a problem go away. The irony is no more care is taken with replacement work than with the original. Thus, as I experienced multiple times, replacement work arrives with the same defects as the original.
The refund and warranty policies aren't disclosed at the outset. It is only when a refund or warranty issue comes up that Paul reveals his policies, which are: no returns/refunds and no warranty. Paul may or may not offer to make repairs, but this is completely at his discretion. There is no formal warranty. Regarding your notion this is an "expensive and unfortunate lesson", yes it has been, on both counts. More than a few, ex Tempus Drums customers have learned this lesson. It would be interesting to collect stats on customers with actual claims versus those who are simply commenting based on reports they've heard.
Before buying, I didn't know of the almost cult-like support for Tempus Drums and Paul Mason on Drumsmith. Consequently, the many positive reviews over there helped persuade me to purchase. I'm now a lot more cautious about checking for bias in reviews, checking for multiple review sources, and checking policies (such as the return policy and warranty). Frankly, Paul Mason has put me off small builders and small companies. I'm going to stick with well-established companies and purchase through well-established dealers for the foreseeable future.
I've done business with Ronn Dunnett on three occasions and each time he provided great service and workmanship. That said, I've run into two problems. First, before purchasing my Tempus kit, I asked Ronn for feedback on Tempus Drums and Paul Mason. Ronn didn't warn me about the manufacturing and customer service issues. Second, in a thread on Drumsmith started by another customer who reported problems with their Tempus order, I noted Ronn hadn't warned me and wasn't warning others about the problems. Ronn responded by attacking my character and threatening to ban me from Drumsmith. Back when I asked for a reference, perhaps Ronn wasn't fully aware of the issues, but he is certainly aware of the issues now and yet he still refers customers to Tempus Drums.
Sonorholic
DFO Star
Ok, there's a lot of crap being slung around here. If this is just a chance to gripe about another forum and/or certain folks.. you can leave me out of it. Go ahead and have your fun, but don't expect a usefull discussion to continue.
Sonorholic
DFO Star
And what happened to the short reply that was just above mine? That's what I was responding to.
Sonor..
I'm sure this is not "fun" in any way for the folks that trusted this guy..and who got totally reamed..
And..this may not be a "useful" thread to you..but it has probably saved quite a few people many thousands of dollars..and untold hours of frustration and misery..
I'm sure this is not "fun" in any way for the folks that trusted this guy..and who got totally reamed..
And..this may not be a "useful" thread to you..but it has probably saved quite a few people many thousands of dollars..and untold hours of frustration and misery..
thin shell
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TDM
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I'm going to comment on feedback received privately and address posts from Sonorholic and thin shell. There has been confusion because I advised against purchasing Tempus drums and at the same time said things like "the drums sound great". Also, I recommended purchasing through a dealer to get around the risks of buying directly from Tempus. These statements combine to make my position murky so I'll clarify.
Fundamentally, my position is customers are best served to avoid Tempus Drums and its products. Currently, significant manufacturing, quality control, and customer service issues exist. These issues may be addressed, however, the largest area needing improvement is business management and business policies. This is why I believe the changes necessary (at all levels of the company) won't occur until Tempus Drums comes under new ownership.
One of the comments I received is "even though buying from a dealer may plug warranty holes, would you want to buy drums where there's a good chance you'll have to use the warranty"? This is a prudent question and it caused me to realize the error in my recommendation (to longfade and others) to purchase through a dealer. No customer wants to buy a product with high defect probability and where the transaction may damage the customer's relationship with the dealer. Also, there's another issue someone pointed out which is that investing money in the Tempus Drums company (by purchasing through a dealer) allows Tempus to continue fleecing customers. This is an aspect I hadn't considered. I believe, as a community, we should use our purchasing decisions to support legitimate businesses and to filter out the flakey ones.
Now, on to Sonorholic's and thin shell's posts.
I agree with Sonorholic that mud slinging serves no useful purpose. Where I (possibly) disagree with Sonorholic and a great many Tempus fans is in sharing a more complete picture of the Tempus purchasing experience. Now that I know what questions to ask, I have yet to speak with a Tempus customer who hasn't had problems with their order - not a single one, satisfied or unsatisfied. It is misleading to share only positive attributes when significant, obvious negatives exist. The negatives may not effect everybody, but they should be shared so that a balanced, informed, and proper assessment can be made.
The same fans who give glowing praise for Paul Mason and Tempus drums, when questioned about details, say things like: "I received a free drum to compensate for the lateness and quality issues"; "I hang a stick bag over the poorly finished side of my floor tom so the flaws can't be seen"; "Tempus didn't follow the written spec and, after many iterations, my kit is close to what I ordered"; "items were substituted without approval and Tempus refused to send the correct items or to allow a return/refund for the substituted items"; "the drums arrived with holes drilled for the mounting hardware, but without the mounting hardware... eventually, months later, after making many emails and phone calls, I received the hardware"; "my Tempus kit has the worst seams I've ever seen"; "my order arrived late and missing items I paid for (heads, suspension mounts, etc.)... eventually I had to buy these items again because Tempus refused to send them"; "it's easier to contact Paul Mason via carrier pigeon than by using the Tempus email address and phone line"; "contacting Tempus became so difficult it seemed I'd lost my money, but eventually Paul delivered"; "the drums are a unique product that customers must accept have certain aspects due to the way Paul makes them".
These are comments from people who consider their Tempus orders a success! Wow! Is there any other drum company whose customers extoll virtues like "I hide the poor finishing so it can't be seen"? Why don't Tempus fans share these things openly? Why do Tempus fans accept defects and poor service that they reject from other drum companies?
I support thin shell's view that bringing in grievances with other parties (such as Ronn Dunnett) dilutes the value of this thread. After various people mentioned the Dunnett/Tempus association, I thought considerably before commenting on how this effected my Tempus purchase. My intent is to highlight the importance of obtaining reviews from multiple sources and to be aware that biases may be contained in reviews and within the culture of certain web sites.
To a degree, I wish Paul Mason were participating in this discussion. It seems unfair to comment openly on his company (Tempus Drums) and business practices, and not have him present to address concerns. However, I'm also glad this thread is disseminating information customers should know before making a Tempus purchase, and this may not have been possible with Paul's involvement. I'll underline the issues we're discussing relate to business transactions with Tempus Drums. Nobody seems to have a personal grudge with Paul Mason. While Paul might consider this thread mean-spirited and a personal affront, that simply isn't the case.
Fundamentally, my position is customers are best served to avoid Tempus Drums and its products. Currently, significant manufacturing, quality control, and customer service issues exist. These issues may be addressed, however, the largest area needing improvement is business management and business policies. This is why I believe the changes necessary (at all levels of the company) won't occur until Tempus Drums comes under new ownership.
One of the comments I received is "even though buying from a dealer may plug warranty holes, would you want to buy drums where there's a good chance you'll have to use the warranty"? This is a prudent question and it caused me to realize the error in my recommendation (to longfade and others) to purchase through a dealer. No customer wants to buy a product with high defect probability and where the transaction may damage the customer's relationship with the dealer. Also, there's another issue someone pointed out which is that investing money in the Tempus Drums company (by purchasing through a dealer) allows Tempus to continue fleecing customers. This is an aspect I hadn't considered. I believe, as a community, we should use our purchasing decisions to support legitimate businesses and to filter out the flakey ones.
Now, on to Sonorholic's and thin shell's posts.
I agree with Sonorholic that mud slinging serves no useful purpose. Where I (possibly) disagree with Sonorholic and a great many Tempus fans is in sharing a more complete picture of the Tempus purchasing experience. Now that I know what questions to ask, I have yet to speak with a Tempus customer who hasn't had problems with their order - not a single one, satisfied or unsatisfied. It is misleading to share only positive attributes when significant, obvious negatives exist. The negatives may not effect everybody, but they should be shared so that a balanced, informed, and proper assessment can be made.
The same fans who give glowing praise for Paul Mason and Tempus drums, when questioned about details, say things like: "I received a free drum to compensate for the lateness and quality issues"; "I hang a stick bag over the poorly finished side of my floor tom so the flaws can't be seen"; "Tempus didn't follow the written spec and, after many iterations, my kit is close to what I ordered"; "items were substituted without approval and Tempus refused to send the correct items or to allow a return/refund for the substituted items"; "the drums arrived with holes drilled for the mounting hardware, but without the mounting hardware... eventually, months later, after making many emails and phone calls, I received the hardware"; "my Tempus kit has the worst seams I've ever seen"; "my order arrived late and missing items I paid for (heads, suspension mounts, etc.)... eventually I had to buy these items again because Tempus refused to send them"; "it's easier to contact Paul Mason via carrier pigeon than by using the Tempus email address and phone line"; "contacting Tempus became so difficult it seemed I'd lost my money, but eventually Paul delivered"; "the drums are a unique product that customers must accept have certain aspects due to the way Paul makes them".
These are comments from people who consider their Tempus orders a success! Wow! Is there any other drum company whose customers extoll virtues like "I hide the poor finishing so it can't be seen"? Why don't Tempus fans share these things openly? Why do Tempus fans accept defects and poor service that they reject from other drum companies?
I support thin shell's view that bringing in grievances with other parties (such as Ronn Dunnett) dilutes the value of this thread. After various people mentioned the Dunnett/Tempus association, I thought considerably before commenting on how this effected my Tempus purchase. My intent is to highlight the importance of obtaining reviews from multiple sources and to be aware that biases may be contained in reviews and within the culture of certain web sites.
To a degree, I wish Paul Mason were participating in this discussion. It seems unfair to comment openly on his company (Tempus Drums) and business practices, and not have him present to address concerns. However, I'm also glad this thread is disseminating information customers should know before making a Tempus purchase, and this may not have been possible with Paul's involvement. I'll underline the issues we're discussing relate to business transactions with Tempus Drums. Nobody seems to have a personal grudge with Paul Mason. While Paul might consider this thread mean-spirited and a personal affront, that simply isn't the case.
W
wayne
Guest
TDM...You had me nodding with approval until your last sentence.If you replace the word "mean" with anger i believe you,ve nailed it.
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Wow !! I can't believe I read the whole thing !! I'm outta here.
